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Post by ballistic on Jan 15, 2023 18:20:16 GMT -5
2nd TEST:
Same as above...same order and process....only this time I ran a dry patch down the bore from the muzzle end and back up to the muzzle end...like we would with a muzzle loader. I pressed the bullet into the bore, it fully seated with thumb pressure which is normal for my SML and then pushed the bullet down the bore with little resistance and that felt normal as well. The single dry patch did the trick and the bullet came out clean.
Awesome Test ! Did the patch initially have some frost on it ? It looks wet from fouling ? I now know what I need to have out in the field with me. I have a hunt next week with weather involved. Will be cold and likely foggy. I’ll be bringing an extra 1 piece rod w cleaning jag for a backup |
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Post by flattopusa on Jan 15, 2023 19:00:05 GMT -5
I could feel dampness...cold dampness.
Let us know how the hunt goes and if you can keep an eye on temp and humidity that would be a bonus! If all fails on your hunt and you dont get a shot and a reload at game, try to take a shot anyway and see if the dry patch will work on a reload....if the conditions exist.
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miked
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by miked on Jan 24, 2023 23:13:40 GMT -5
This is something I ALWAYS fight in the Northeast for both my ML seasons. Humidity is always above 80% minimum. It's not just about being hard to load but, condensation on the powder after a reload in the cold as well. I can reload and fire a follow up shot fine as long as only a minute or two has passed from when reloading. If as little time as a half hour has passed before taking another shot then my powder will not ignite. Emptying at home the powder (Blackhorn) is always soaked after an unshot reload in the field. I will be control testing this situation in the backyard this winter to characterize it more, especially with Smokeless. I made the mistake of seeing if I could run a dry patch using my 3 piece corded ram rod. Luckily I tested at home and not the field. It got stuck and broke. Bought a new one for quick reloads but also bought a 3 piece heavy screw together solid aluminum one from spinjag that fits in my waist pack and accepts the handle on my 3 peiece corded one. My idea is that if I can't see the animal still alive after the shot I have time to dry swab, let barrel cool, swab for moisture again and then reload. Im not sure if that will help but in my mind it would! I will test that too. Miked where do you carry your powder/bullet/primer reloads ?? Do you ever use a heated blind ?? These answers could prove helpfull . Especially if we all put our heads together compareing related practices we could possibly help each other . Sorry for the delay! Long hunting season and Im still recovering! I carry all reloading smokeless stuff in a belt pouch not typically covered. In a stand I will hang it from a hook. Blackhorn reloads and bullets are on the buttstock. Im always still hunting, sitting in the ground or in a hang on stand. No blind, no heat. I experienced two things I haven't seen before this past December. The first was the outside of my barrel sweating in my Jeep after changing locations from morning to afternoon and running heat. I had the gun in a case but didn't snap it shut tight. After the first time I saw this I emptied the powder and it was still dry. The second time I saw this I ignored it, found some tracks in 18" of fresh snow to follow and shot a doe at 120 yds. Those CEB's perform excellent! The second thing that happened this year was I knew it was going to get single digit cold the next morning so I put the gun in the case and in the Jeep the night before while it was still mid 30's so it wouldn't be as big of a temp change. The next morning the outside of all the metal including the scope was covered in frost. I always load inside my controlled temp and humidity room and seal with a finger cot on the barrel and a dummy primer so my hope is inside the barrel and powder is fine. Also using a sabot to ensure that tight seal. |
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Post by Sideshow on Jan 25, 2023 6:43:57 GMT -5
Thanks for the report miked and congrats on the doe !!!
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Post by flattopusa on Jan 25, 2023 10:50:18 GMT -5
Keep this in mind: "air" is always in the bore, and all "air" has moisture content to one degree or another. Temps will change and if the temps dip that moisture in the air in the bore, is going to frost, freeze, or in the case of above freezing temps go wet. The powder charge is encompassed by the bullet and the breech plug but there is still air mixed with the powder, and even if you seal the bore there is still air in the bore. So, where ever there is air there is moisture and temps will cause that moisture in the air to be affected.
No matter what kind of weather I have hunted or shot in I have never had a charge fail to fire...BP or SML. Thats a good thing! The issue is the freezing of moisture in the barrel and I have found that a dry patch between shots may be the answer...if It does not affect the way the rifle performs. My SML requires a few fouling shots to bring it on point of impact and then it settles down and shoots accurately. Will it shoot accurately if I shoot a fouling shot, patch the bore and continue to fire shots patching in between shots. That is yet to be seen, and that will be my next test.
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miked
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by miked on Jan 26, 2023 21:21:48 GMT -5
Keep this in mind: "air" is always in the bore, and all "air" has moisture content to one degree or another. Temps will change and if the temps dip that moisture in the air in the bore, is going to frost, freeze, or in the case of above freezing temps go wet. The powder charge is encompassed by the bullet and the breech plug but there is still air mixed with the powder, and even if you seal the bore there is still air in the bore. So, where ever there is air there is moisture and temps will cause that moisture in the air to be affected. No matter what kind of weather I have hunted or shot in I have never had a charge fail to fire...BP or SML. Thats a good thing! The issue is the freezing of moisture in the barrel and I have found that a dry patch between shots may be the answer...if It does not affect the way the rifle performs. My SML requires a few fouling shots to bring it on point of impact and then it settles down and shoots accurately. Will it shoot accurately if I shoot a fouling shot, patch the bore and continue to fire shots patching in between shots. That is yet to be seen, and that will be my next test. Yes to all but one thing to add is that the % of humidity in the air will change the dewpoint and so will barometric pressure. When I load at home humidity is always below 50%. If I leave a little room at the tip, as the gun changes temperature outside in the cold it will suck that tip back inside the bore as the seal created a vacuum with contracted gases. At least thats how I know I have a tight seal on that end! Breach of course is not nearly that good but the same vaccum effect would happen to equilibrate the air on both sides so your powder on the breach could see the higher humidity for sure. When sighting in I always run a dry swab between shots. Iv been aware of the hardening residue effects for quite some time with muzzleloaders and since I have been using a chrono you can see the same effect with everything. First shot is typically the fastest because of the added pressure. The dry swab has not had any negative effects on my 100yd groupings. It's actually improved them significantly as I wait a decent amount of time between shots. (Have a range in my back yard) |
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Post by Sideshow on Jan 27, 2023 5:28:11 GMT -5
Keep this in mind: "air" is always in the bore, and all "air" has moisture content to one degree or another. Temps will change and if the temps dip that moisture in the air in the bore, is going to frost, freeze, or in the case of above freezing temps go wet. The powder charge is encompassed by the bullet and the breech plug but there is still air mixed with the powder, and even if you seal the bore there is still air in the bore. So, where ever there is air there is moisture and temps will cause that moisture in the air to be affected. No matter what kind of weather I have hunted or shot in I have never had a charge fail to fire...BP or SML. Thats a good thing! The issue is the freezing of moisture in the barrel and I have found that a dry patch between shots may be the answer...if It does not affect the way the rifle performs. My SML requires a few fouling shots to bring it on point of impact and then it settles down and shoots accurately. Will it shoot accurately if I shoot a fouling shot, patch the bore and continue to fire shots patching in between shots. That is yet to be seen, and that will be my next test. Yes to all but one thing to add is that the % of humidity in the air will change the dewpoint and so will barometric pressure. When I load at home humidity is always below 50%. If I leave a little room at the tip, as the gun changes temperature outside in the cold it will suck that tip back inside the bore as the seal created a vacuum with contracted gases. At least thats how I know I have a tight seal on that end! Breach of course is not nearly that good but the same vaccum effect would happen to equilibrate the air on both sides so your powder on the breach could see the higher humidity for sure. When sighting in I always run a dry swab between shots. Iv been aware of the hardening residue effects for quite some time with muzzleloaders and since I have been using a chrono you can see the same effect with everything. First shot is typically the fastest because of the added pressure. The dry swab has not had any negative effects on my 100yd groupings. It's actually improved them significantly as I wait a decent amount of time between shots. (Have a range in my back yard) Ok its 24* on the garage thermometer and we got 6 " of wet/frozen snow on the ground . Humidity is high , barometer is low or so my bones tell me . Good day to head to my farm range close by and shoot . I already know how my bores behaved before . Today theyre slicked up with Eezox and polished up smoother than a kittens belly . They are SLIPPERY !!! Will test 2 today , my 45 Brux 1 in 20 saboted and the smoker Mighty Whitey the .410 useing T7-3f , nasty crud ring causeing stuff . The sabots will house 220gr X-treme Bullets swedged copper plated 40s ($70ish for 500) . Great plinkers or coyote destroyers by the way as long as you dont intend a trip to a furrier ...!! Loading before i leave , miked gave me a brainstorm ....... Carburator vaccum port nipples for both breeches ( i have a slew ) along with my typical tight fitting finger cots ( pharmacy ) on the muzzles for rain used previously . Ill leave 1 bore , 45 , sealed as it cools just for the differences seen . Thanks miked hope this helps you too !!! One fits good on the #11 nipple and another skinny one used backwards fits good in the ASG plug on that 45 . Im Sealed and ready to prime and shoot before i leave home !!! 70* and hard cased to keep warm . Wont be a real extensive shooting test however as Remingtom #11s cant be found anywhere and im low on Smokeless powder too . N120 im out , so H4198 gets the nod and thats lower than liked as well . I realize most wont care about the smoker test but i will challenge you to find fouling that tenacious to cling to a bore tougher than a T7 crud ring !!! Accuracy and how Eezox affects the fouling removal , the cool down to ambiant for water , frost , or ice formation initially and afterwards of shots taken is this studys purpose . I always got a pocket flaslight thats Really Bright on me to see . Cooling Completely to frozen between shots is the goal before reload on a cleaned bore . We will see what happens ..... This i can say HLBS sure slide down much different , Much easier & smoother with Eezox in the bore . This has got to be a good thing for petal integrity from stretching as theyre usually pretty tight . I knurl to a .004 interfearance fit useing Starret small hole gauged bore and mic loaded sabots for these figures . Works Good . Im suprised more SML guys dont do this . Its a carryover from smokers thats still proven to be better ive experianced to accuracy . No guesswork and consistant . The sabot weak link to accuracy is lessened . Wish Brux had 8 lands instead of 6 for sabots to time them . I will report back..... |
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Post by Sideshow on Jan 27, 2023 14:55:12 GMT -5
Ok just got home and the garage thermometer says 39* so its had a 15* temp swing during this test from 24 to 39* .
EEZOX is a Keeper !!!
The fouling even from T7 crud wasnt nearly so tuff to remove . Thank you Flatopusa for this Awesome suggestion !!!
The 45 Rem/Brux SML also showed improvement in its saboted groups . The Eezox also seemed to prove durable over the 5 shots taken in the 45 . Hunting type tests remember ?? Bore was patched till clean after it cooled completely vs the other rifles unshot as a "feel" the difference temp as a control .
Fouling for the H4198/58gr was far easier to remove too after being alowed to cool completely after shooting .
Oh yes the let it get cold before shooting test did indeed show difference between covered muzzle or not . Much less in the 45 vs uncovered 410 . Loaded and sealed up in the lower house humidity showed itself no doubt about it as they cooled to freezeing before a shot was taken .
I also believe i saw Less barrel sweat INSIDE the bore form after shooting with Eezox applied . The outer barrel sweated heavily as normal .
This reminded me of something !!! Ive gone to home builder shows and there was always a fellow there selling his product . This snake oil guy proved Not to be so full of it with his magic hot-pink crayons that Stopped bathroom mirrors from FOGGING FROM THE SHOWER .
Talk about a bell ringer !!!
What IS that Stuff ??
Also while admittedly not my best day shooting i did still yet see a improvement of the saboted rounds to group . I didnt stay out in the cold but sat in an idleing truck drinking a thermos of coffee instead keeping warm . Ive been far steadier not full of Columbian finest brew lol !!!
But improvement was there for accuracy when i could keep it together .
Think that pretty well covers my results . Im starved !!!
Hope this helps ......
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Post by flattopusa on Jan 28, 2023 10:17:43 GMT -5
Ok just got home and the garage thermometer says 39* so its had a 15* temp swing during this test from 24 to 39* . EEZOX is a Keeper !!! The fouling even from T7 crud wasnt nearly so tuff to remove . Thank you Flatopusa for this Awesome suggestion !!! The 45 Rem/Brux SML also showed improvement in its saboted groups . The Eezox also seemed to prove durable over the 5 shots taken in the 45 . Hunting type tests remember ?? Bore was patched till clean after it cooled completely vs the other rifles unshot as a "feel" the difference temp as a control . Fouling for the H4198/58gr was far easier to remove too after being alowed to cool completely after shooting . Oh yes the let it get cold before shooting test did indeed show difference between covered muzzle or not . Much less in the 45 vs uncovered 410 . Loaded and sealed up in the lower house humidity showed itself no doubt about it as they cooled to freezeing before a shot was taken . I also believe i saw Less barrel sweat INSIDE the bore form after shooting with Eezox applied . The outer barrel sweated heavily as normal . This reminded me of something !!! Ive gone to home builder shows and there was always a fellow there selling his product . This snake oil guy proved Not to be so full of it with his magic hot-pink crayons that Stopped bathroom mirrors from FOGGING FROM THE SHOWER . Talk about a bell ringer !!! What IS that Stuff ?? Also while admittedly not my best day shooting i did still yet see a improvement of the saboted rounds to group . I didnt stay out in the cold but sat in an idleing truck drinking a thermos of coffee instead keeping warm . Ive been far steadier not full of Columbian finest brew lol !!! But improvement was there for accuracy when i could keep it together . Think that pretty well covers my results . Im starved !!! Hope this helps ......Sounds good on the EEZOX....supposed to be good stuff. I have only used in one rifle and only for bore cleaning but it made a big difference there. Might give it a try in both my SML and the BP rifles, but first I am going to try just the shoot, patch, and reload and see how that works out. If it does not, EEZOX will be the next test. For "hunting" all I need is the first shot and a reload. If I can get three shots with no bullet sticking and good accuracy and no change in point of impact that would be superb! |
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Post by Sideshow on Jan 28, 2023 11:36:10 GMT -5
Flatopusa i applied EEZOX twice and let it dry both times on a already clean bore . I then polished it up with flannel patches . I really liked how Slippery those bores became !!! Amazing really . I believe youll like EEZOX ALOT as i sure do . It IS however pricey , i bought the 4oz squirt can , its almost $20 now . I hesitate to use ANYTHING on the outside of my deer guns however. Deer noses are said to be a million times better than a bird dogs !!! Yes im paranoid on this .
This anti-fogging stuff i think will be my next focus . Ive seen previously SOMEWHERE that its now offered for eyewear ?? This may be ok for scopes too ?? And im curious just how it may further benefit the rest of our muzzys care as well .
There may be a light at the end of this tunnel afterall . Hopefully no trains........lol
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Post by flattopusa on Jan 28, 2023 12:36:55 GMT -5
Sideshow; I have used the EEZOX but not for the muzzies and I think its worth a try. As far as anti-fog, I use nothing on my scopes and dont have an issue, but any anti fog that is good for eyeglasses will surely work on scope lenses. I used to use it for motorcycle goggles and face shields and it worked ok.
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Post by Sideshow on Jan 28, 2023 15:26:11 GMT -5
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Post by jeepeater on Jan 28, 2023 22:04:41 GMT -5
Flatopusa i applied EEZOX twice and let it dry both times on a already clean bore . I then polished it up with flannel patches . I really liked how Slippery those bores became !!! Amazing really . I believe youll like EEZOX ALOT as i sure do . It IS however pricey , i bought the 4oz squirt can , its almost $20 now . I hesitate to use ANYTHING on the outside of my deer guns however. Deer noses are said to be a million times better than a bird dogs !!! Yes im paranoid on this . This anti-fogging stuff i think will be my next focus . Ive seen previously SOMEWHERE that its now offered for eyewear ?? This may be ok for scopes too ?? And im curious just how it may further benefit the rest of our muzzys care as well . There may be a light at the end of this tunnel afterall . Hopefully no trains........lol I’m not sure it’s what you’re looking for, but the best glass treatment I’ve seen for anti-fog is called Cat Crap from Ekusa.com. |
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Post by Sideshow on Jan 29, 2023 7:38:00 GMT -5
Flatopusa i applied EEZOX twice and let it dry both times on a already clean bore . I then polished it up with flannel patches . I really liked how Slippery those bores became !!! Amazing really . I believe youll like EEZOX ALOT as i sure do . It IS however pricey , i bought the 4oz squirt can , its almost $20 now . I hesitate to use ANYTHING on the outside of my deer guns however. Deer noses are said to be a million times better than a bird dogs !!! Yes im paranoid on this . This anti-fogging stuff i think will be my next focus . Ive seen previously SOMEWHERE that its now offered for eyewear ?? This may be ok for scopes too ?? And im curious just how it may further benefit the rest of our muzzys care as well . There may be a light at the end of this tunnel afterall . Hopefully no trains........lol I’m not sure it’s what you’re looking for, but the best glass treatment I’ve seen for anti-fog is called Cat Crap from Ekusa.com. You Rock jeepster !!! Geeez theres all kinds of this stuff out there !!! I didnt know Where to begin picking one !!! Thank You for this reccomendation as i was Bewildered lol !!! Says a snow skier came up with "Cat Crap" on his own . I bet it IS good stuff as Smackin a tree downhilling wouldnt be good At All !!! Thank you...... Do you suggest the gel or the spray ?? Does it even matter ?? Humm , Im thinkin the gel .... |
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Post by Sideshow on Jan 29, 2023 8:17:16 GMT -5
On a side note after seeing how crazy slick EEZOX made my bores i think im gonna take my bolts apart and do them from now on too . Its supposed to be a rust inhibitor as well as a friction killer . Smooth is nice and Lock times matter lol.......
Im a little afraid though to put it on my triggers . Ive used lighter fluid for years and never been bit - aftermarket and factory .
Opinions ??
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Post by jeepeater on Jan 29, 2023 14:08:30 GMT -5
I’m not sure it’s what you’re looking for, but the best glass treatment I’ve seen for anti-fog is called Cat Crap from Ekusa.com. You Rock jeepster !!! Geeez theres all kinds of this stuff out there !!! I didnt know Where to begin picking one !!! Thank You for this reccomendation as i was Bewildered lol !!! Says a snow skier came up with "Cat Crap" on his own . I bet it IS good stuff as Smackin a tree downhilling wouldnt be good At All !!! Thank you...... Do you suggest the gel or the spray ?? Does it even matter ?? Humm , Im thinkin the gel .... The little flip top container will last forever, that’s what we use. They also have come out with single use wipes, but they seem pricey. |
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Post by Sideshow on Jan 29, 2023 16:01:47 GMT -5
You Rock jeepster !!! Geeez theres all kinds of this stuff out there !!! I didnt know Where to begin picking one !!! Thank You for this reccomendation as i was Bewildered lol !!! Says a snow skier came up with "Cat Crap" on his own . I bet it IS good stuff as Smackin a tree downhilling wouldnt be good At All !!! Thank you...... Do you suggest the gel or the spray ?? Does it even matter ?? Humm , Im thinkin the gel .... The little flip top container will last forever, that’s what we use. They also have come out with single use wipes, but they seem pricey. Cat Crap flip-top gel it is then !!! Cool.... I got Zeiss single use cleaner wipes but no anti-fog is in them . Truthfully im not nuts over those either but....i got them . I figured the Cat Crap gel would be more potent probably than dilluted spray too . Says not but i like the flip top better too . Thank you for the good report !!! I really like that a regular guy , somebody who uses and needed this stuff came up with it . His life could litterally depend on its preformance . It HAD to be Good !!! |
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Post by ballistic on Jan 31, 2023 17:44:11 GMT -5
I did some more cold temp testing today. Temps started at -1 with a high of 3 during this test. Shooting was 5 minutes apart for 3 shots. I’ve included some pics to help tell the story. Todays test was with smokeless (RL15) powder for my .40 cal. After shooting I immediately reloaded -reset the muzzy at the bench -reset the labradar- and then take temps just before shooting (4.5 min mark) and note it. I measure the temps in 4 places. 1-action/recoil lug junction. 2- 6” forward of recoil lug. 3-mid barrel. 4-end of barrel. Before shooting my 1st shot the temps from 1-4 measured -1,0,1,0 affer the first shot the temps measured 11,14,11,3 The pics (you might have to zoom in) reveal the temp gauge on the barrel and also reveal the ice/frost that formed. The frost only formed up to mid barrel - nothing at all at the muzzle. I did not bring my FLIR (wish I would have) to reveal much warmer core temps. I also shot my 260 hunting rifle (skinny taper barrel) using H1000 powder and it did similar with the frosting -only the barrel iced 3/4 of the way. The skinny barrel warms up faster but also cools faster. I believe the slower the powder - more heat gets to the end of the barrel -at least from my past testing. Just a guess - but I believe condensation is forming inside the bore as well. This possibly backs up what flattopusa tests have shown. Anyway- a pic is worth 1000 words - some good -some bad. A week ago I looked down my .40 muzzy barrel after a really cold day hunting and saw frost on the bullet. My balloon had a pin hole. Grabbed my borescope to get a good pic -the apple app is no longer supported. So I don’t have a pic to prove it. I can only say I saw it - and had been packing my muzzy in a gunruner backpack. It likely was warmed and cooled a few times. Temps were in the teens when hunting. When I removed the gun from the pack at home -the barrel was at 22 degrees with frost on the outside. Something is surely happening -likely dew point is reached when humidity and temps from the barrel when hot and cold come together. Today this happened outside the barrel (frost) and my speed dropped by 60 fps -another indicator of possible moisture inside the barrel.    |
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Post by Sideshow on Jan 31, 2023 22:30:32 GMT -5
Thank you Ballistic !!! Wow 60 fps Drop !!! Thats ALOT !!!
How your barrels acted sounds much like mine figureing temp differences outside . Geez thats dedication with what you endured to shoot the test !!!
Not many would be testing near zero !!!
Time for a hot tub and a nice bowl of chilli for you !!!
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Post by buckeye68 on Jan 31, 2023 23:22:46 GMT -5
I thought I would jump in this post with a little cold weather test myself. So, at 5am this morning the alarm went off and I packed the car and headed to the range. My gun was a toasty 72 degrees when I put it in the gun case. By the time I stop for a breakfast sandwich and unloaded the car the temp was a warm 12 degrees outside with a wind chill of -2. Wind was out of the north at 12 mph. Humidity was at 70%. My gun set outside for at least one hour on the bench in the rest before I could fire off the first shot at 7:30am. The gun’s temp was the same on the inside and outside. First shot was on a clean barrel, bang. The second shot loaded just like the first with a easy 2 finger push and it went bang. I waited 3 minutes before I loaded the next shot, it went bang also. So, I thought since I shoot DI, I would blow in the barrel through the breach plug. The action had frost on it and I let it set for anther 4 minutes before I loaded it again. Yep, you guessed it. Bang again. I would shoot and remove the module and blow inside the action through the DI plug and let the gun set for another 3 minutes before I reloaded. There was no difference in load pressure from the first shot till I loaded the 28th shot. My finger was so cold that I could not feel the trigger. It made for a fun day of shooting. By the time I was done the temp was up to 14 degrees with a wind chill of 4 degrees.
This test was done with no pretreatment on the barrel or bullets of any kind just like I would deer hunt.
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