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Post by hillbill on Feb 17, 2021 21:15:32 GMT -5
Things are slow so I thought I would stir up some chatter if possible.
I have one in the works: A clone of the gun I call Bolt except it's a .45 this time
found a SA 700 body, I had a bolt that's already fluted and has an aluminum knob, tigged up the bolt face to fly cut for modules, I have an aluminum bolt shroud for it to reduce some weight. will open up base holes to 8-40 and use one of Jeff's 20 MOA pic rails Jeff's .187 machined lug I have a #6 Brux 20 twist @ 24" 8 flute straight ready to spin up
A good 5 port tactical brake metal cerakote black
Trigger Tech trigger bedded in a Mesa Alpine BDL stock with Remmy bottom metal with storage compartment
should weigh in @ 8 lb or slightly less
Why a .45? My wife is fond of Bolt since she made a 300+ yd shot last season, tries to claim it but that's not going to happen. Just in case I get to hunt Illinois or Kansas in the next year or two I will have a stick to go play with and something to carry when I go with the wife. Sasquatch is fond of the Apex .40 so I will have all my bases covered.
Let's hear about some new guns planned for the up coming season, I'm bored in this crappy weather.
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Post by nick50471 on Feb 17, 2021 21:40:11 GMT -5
Sounds fun Bill. KaaBoom is getting some bolt work done at GreTan Rifles. New firing pin and bushing. My wife’s new rig shows up Friday. She named it Needal (game of thrones) Arrowhead Obsidian action and G2 Breechplug #17 45cal Brux 20 twist finished at 30” spiral fluted 5 port muscle brake Trigger Tech Special 2 stage Stock by Alex Sitman NF ATACR 5-25x56 I gave my hunting rig to my neighbor. So I’m putting together another light weight brush buster. Arrowhead Obsidian action and G2 BP #17 45cal Brux 20 twist finished at 28” interrupted fluted Trigger Tech Special 2 stage AG Composites Gladius stock with adj cheek piece NF ATACR 5-25x56
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Post by booner22 on Feb 17, 2021 21:59:36 GMT -5
I have my first bolt gun in the works. Found a builder to do a 45 based on a howa action in a krg chassis. 26in modified sendero piercision muzzle break topped with a leupold vxl. Currently shooting a stock savage Ml so this will be quite an upgrade for me.
I Also tracked down a Cva scout to have converted really hoping I can track down some powder to shot this summer.
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Post by Richard on Feb 17, 2021 23:04:27 GMT -5
Hillbill...I seem to be missing something? You have a 700 short action. Then you talk about tigging up the bolt face so you can fly cut it for modules? That sounds like something you would do with a 700ML type bolt if you were converting it for HIS? What am I missing?
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Post by chromeslayer on Feb 17, 2021 23:36:47 GMT -5
Sent off a rem 700sa to Jr Shultz a few weeks back
Rem 700sa, bolt spiral fluted 29in #17 brux 20twist spiral fluted HIS ignition Hankins 20moa scopebase 8-40 screws Manners T5A stock in midnite camo NF Atacr 5-25 Barreled action nitride finished as well
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Post by hillbill on Feb 18, 2021 4:46:06 GMT -5
Richard My Bolt gun also has a fly cut bolt face, it started life as a .223 so I didn't need to weld it up. My preference for these rigs is the slotted bolt face to slide the modules in and out, I like the system much better. I have welded up a 308 bolt face before and cut the slot, same on this one.
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Post by 150class on Feb 18, 2021 8:26:24 GMT -5
I’m working on one similar to Hillbill’s. Lightweight gun with the #6 barrel. I am curious, what are people considering for safe max loads in these? I doubt I will push mine, I have a heavy barrel and gun for that, but just wondering.
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Post by afisher on Feb 18, 2021 8:36:23 GMT -5
I was wondering kind of the same. Is the #6 with 1.250” shank acceptable for the 4895 300gr bullet loads?
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Post by Richard on Feb 18, 2021 9:51:17 GMT -5
Makes sense but had me initially confused. I know Mike had built you one for a 700ML. It would be nice if PTG could offer 700 bolts like that!
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Post by elkman1310 on Feb 18, 2021 10:35:35 GMT -5
Well it has been slow which was a good thing for me it gave some of my health problems time to heal up. I am currently building two 45 caliber muzzleloaders both on S/S Rem 700 M/L actions. yes both are 209 ignition guns because that's all I build and that's what my customers want. The other systems are fine but I like the 209 system. The largest buck killed in Iowa this year in early muzzleloader season was killed with one of my guns a giant 232 inch buck plus several 180 and 190 class bucks in Iowa and Kansas.
(1) Gun will be fitted into a HS fiberglass pro varmint stock black with gray web very nice stock with aluminum chassis but it still needs a good bedding job. They say its a drop in fit for a Rem action yes I think you could drop the action into it from 10 feet its very loose and the recoil pad is pretty hard I use the same stock on my personal muzzleloader and it works well I just think for $400.00 it should not require a bunch of stock work to make it hold up to a muzzleloader.
This gun will have a Modified S/S Rem 700 M/L action for a 209 primer. A Brux .45 caliber #6 with 1-20 twist finished off at 26 inches plus the brake. The action will have a EGW 20 MOA rail shorten at the front so there is no over hang and also milled out over the ejection port for ease of loading a primer. I also use a .250 taper S/S recoil lug and these two guns will also use trigger tech triggers. The stock will be milled out for a ramrod tube and will have a ramrod and barrel band. also a new aluminum trigger guard
Gun number two will have a Modified S/S Rem 700 M/l action for a 209 primer. A Brux .45 caliber #6 with 1-20 twist finished off at 24 inches plus the brake. It will also have a .250 taper recoil lug. A Boyd's custom Heritage stock with all the bells and whistles fancy checking and forend and pistol grip cap. It will have a internal ramrod tube for a on board ramrod with barrel band. The barrel will be a Brux #6 with some more profiling to make it work with the barrel channel . A EGW 20 MOA base shorten and milled out over the ejection port. a Trigger tech trigger and new aluminum trigger guard.
Both these guns will be going to Iowa. I thought with the straight wall cartridges coming into use that guys would want to build some 450BM but they like the added performance they get from a smokeless muzzleloader.
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Post by hillbill on Feb 18, 2021 12:20:41 GMT -5
Richard The ones Mike did were for a 209 in a CF action, in Remington actions with a factory extractor they can at times be a little difficult to place the modules in, with the slotted bolt they are a breeze to get in and out, I can do it in the dark by feel and not have to look at it, with a Sako or mini M-16 extractor they are more user friendly than the factory extractor. It's not a huge deal either way but the slotted bolt face IMO is more user friendly.
The #6 will handle heavy loads BUT in a sub 11 lb gun about all you will want to shoot is a 300 @ 2750, recoil gets pretty brutal above that.
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Post by Richard on Feb 18, 2021 12:53:55 GMT -5
Gotcha!
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Post by afisher on Feb 18, 2021 16:43:07 GMT -5
Thanks, I know it was a bit off subject. But on another note nothing new for myself but my brother is putting together one of these beasts in a 45 using a pierce ti action, hells canyon carbon tube and not sure on the stock manufacturer(but carbon) to go along with the “light gun trend” here. I won’t steal too much of his thunder though and hopefully he’ll bring it to light when he gets it all together for all to see. Way I understood though pierce is not new to the slotted bolt face for the modules though and his is supposed to include this feature. Moved forward external bolt release as well to serve as the bolt stop if I understood correctly.
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Post by buckstuds on Feb 18, 2021 17:45:52 GMT -5
Another bolt clone. #6 brux modified, 40 cal , 25 inches, tactical brake, fluted mesa percision stock bat screws trigger tech special vortex precision match rings murphy base sig whiskey 5 3x15x44 mrad milling hunter defiance rebel stainless single shot action only thing I need is botom metal
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Post by hillbill on Feb 18, 2021 18:34:49 GMT -5
Just my observations on Light guns having built several:
light is good to a point and this is only my opinion. while we can go really light as has been described above, depending on caliber and load light weight means heavy recoil even with a very good brake. While I don't consider myself too recoil shy I don't enjoy it, when you get a gun lighter than 10 lbs total weight be aware that it will bite hard when you pull the trigger IF you are shooting even mid range loads, what do I consider a mid range load? in a .45 a 300 @ 26-2750 is a decent hunting load out to 400 yards, get much above that and recoil is considerable in a light build.
Light build? I consider 8 lbs without a scope light in this game, the build you are describing is likely in the 6.5-7 lb range, don't get me wrong it will be super nice and it will be light and easy to tote around but it will be an attention getter in more than the looks department.
Yes Pierce did 700 bolts with a slotted face a few years back for a couple of guys we know and have done them since, I'm not the first for sure, he will like the slotted bolt face.
Be sure to post some pictures of the build when it's finished, everyone likes eye candy.
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Post by afisher on Feb 18, 2021 20:24:37 GMT -5
Ohh yeah I assured him that it would bite back whole heartedly. I told him my reserves of trying to achieve that kind of weight but to each their own I guess. Told him no one would copycat him locally either in that kind of budget of a gun and I’d just tote my 10lb gun with a #6 with a smile on face.
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Post by sew on Feb 18, 2021 22:59:39 GMT -5
I’d think that the primary purpose for a very light build would be short to mid-range , at least, for me. 0-200, maybe 300 yards. If so, a 228 AccuMax or 253 Hammer at 2650-2700’/sec, or even a 195Bs at 2700-2800 should be highly adequate for deer sized animals. A 40 cal bullet with a BC >0.3 weighing 228g , with a BC of 0.34 launched at 2700’/sec still has ~1950 ft #s at 300 yards!! So, even the “light” 228g bullet has twice the energy recommended for a 30 cal bullet for quick, humane kills of a whitetail deer, (larger cal, ie 40, needs less - and actually has more momentum than needed) at 300 yards. Now, I may be in for a surprise with the recoil of a sub-8# 40 cal MLer shooting a 253g bullet at 2650’/sec or 228g bullet at 2700’/sec.
When my rifle is complete, weighed and I have some targets to show, I’ll report.
I really got tired of carrying 16 1/2# around for miles this season for 2 weeks. It didn’t recoil much. 3 -3 1/2 K ft-lbs was pretty deadly on 3 deer.
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Post by hillbill on Feb 19, 2021 7:28:19 GMT -5
Steve I think what you are building will be spot on for your intended purpose.
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Post by sew on Feb 19, 2021 8:15:22 GMT -5
Thank you Bill. I appreciate your help and advice. Someday, people will be saying, “Remember back when actually shot those huge 45 cal bullets? “
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Post by elkman1310 on Feb 19, 2021 9:18:40 GMT -5
Trying to a make a 45 caliber bolt action muzzleloader under 10lbs with a 30mm scope and good rings and a ramrod on the gun is a pretty tall order. Most of the guns I have built range between 11.5 lbs to a heavy thumbhole of 13lbs. Some people like the extra weight it does help soak up the recoil and the people I build guns for are not walkers they drive to a shooting blind and sit all day. so weight for them is not a factor.
If I wanted a light weight muzzleloader for stalking I would simply choose a CVA Mountain rifle or something along those lines since your mainly going to be hunting in the woods. Or you could go with one of Jeff's conversions if you want to go smokeless. If your going to build a bolt action gun you might as well make it a long range muzzleloader that you can run heavy enough loads to get the extended range you wanted in the first place.
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