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Post by james72 on Mar 5, 2023 15:47:02 GMT -5
Are you using a bore cleaner when you do this? Do you remove the breech plug when you brush the bore? Also curious what you and others do to clean the breech plug? I understand these gun shoot better on a fouled bore, but I was thinking after cleaning it would take maybe 3 or 4 shots to foul the bore and start shooting consistent again. But when I clean my barrel I like to dry brush at least 10 times in and out with the breach plug out. I then use boretech copper and carbon solvents on patches and then use plain old sea foam on a patch followed by dry patches and I’m done. I do not use an oil patch - I leave the bore dry. My centerfire rifle routine is the same except I use lockeze on a patch (after the last dry patch) on many of them (not all) and works really well. I'm curious because I haven't ever heard or tried before - what does the sea foam do in addition to the boretech and/or other carbon solvents? Do you use it on all your barrels?
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Post by james72 on Mar 5, 2023 15:56:11 GMT -5
Sorry my question above showed up inside your original post. I'll repeat in case it is missed... I'm curious because I haven't ever heard or tried before - what does the seafoam do in addition to the boretech and/or other carbon solvents? Do you use it on all your barrels?
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Post by SURESHOT on Mar 5, 2023 16:05:38 GMT -5
With the HIS breech plug they are made for many shots fired down range, when I clean I brush the outer area of the plug light oil on threads and screw it back in with hopefully the same tension it was to remove. Clean the the bore with Montana supreme, and a carbon remover. I am trying Barnes CR 10 so far so good on CF. I put nothing thru the hole in the breech plug
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Post by ballistic on Mar 5, 2023 20:32:41 GMT -5
Sorry my question above showed up inside your original post. I'll repeat in case it is missed... I'm curious because I haven't ever heard or tried before - what does the seafoam do in addition to the boretech and/or other carbon solvents? Do you use it on all your barrels? Seafoam is used for cleaning injectors and carbon deposits on vehicles. It’s just another type of carbon cleaner but has a small amount of lubricant in it. I don’t like to leave a barrel heavily oiled for storage. The oils end up drying and it’s as much or more work to bring the rifle back into service when you decide to use it. I also live in a dry climate. Seafoam will also make the harsh ammonia based copper cleaning solvents inert (Barnes CR10/sweets 7.62) which sometimes need to be used in between boretechs products to remove heavy copper deposits. Seafoam doesn’t need to be dry patched as 99% of it drys within minutes as long as your patch isn’t soaking wet. A good damp patch down the barrel works well. This works well for me -it’s a little different. I originally used it to clean black powder between shots and now I like to finish clean/prep with it.
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Post by james72 on Mar 5, 2023 21:54:41 GMT -5
I also don't like to leave a barrel heavily oiled. I've used boretech products for the last few years on my rifles. I think I will try the seafoam as a last step and see how I like it. Thanks ballistic.
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Post by flattopusa on Mar 6, 2023 12:33:43 GMT -5
I also don't like to leave a barrel heavily oiled. I've used boretech products for the last few years on my rifles. I think I will try the seafoam as a last step and see how I like it. Thanks ballistic. I use Seafoam for carbon fouling only. Two wet patches, let it sit a minute or so, then a wet bore brush, let it sit a minute or so, two more wet patches followed by dry patches until clean. I store my barrels with Breakfree CLP. Next trip to the range I dry patch the Breakfree CLP until a clean patch comes out the bore, fire a fouling shot and then shoot.
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mateo
New Member
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Post by mateo on Mar 13, 2023 9:37:04 GMT -5
Here's an update. My gun is completely dirty. Haven't cleaned the bore or breech plug in the last 30 some shots. Bore has had 2 dry patches ran through after shooting at the range each time is all. They were just on the plastic tip that has a slot you can insert a patch into. Ran one in once and back out, and did another one in and back out. Not much on the patch actually. Didn't pull breech plug. Did take a pick and a dry patch and ran it around the inside of the primer pocket, but honestly it wasn't all that dirty. Not sure if that is because I give all my modules a little cleaning after use or not, but something's working. The modules I just use a pick and scrape out, then a welders tip cleaner, (proper size), and run in/out twice. I spend 30 seconds ish per module is all, not much. Anyway, my 1st shot and second shot were dead on with each other at 100 yds. I then went to 50 yds and put 2 in the same hole. I then went to 150 yds and put 3 in a 1 1/4" group. I then went to 200 and put 3 in a 7/8" group. 1st 2 shots were 5 mins or less between shots. Next 2 were 10 mins later, and were shot one right after the other. the next 3 were 15 mins later, and all three shots were 10 mins or less of each other. The last 3 at 200 yds were all shot within 5 mins of each other. To be clear, when I say "completely dirty", that just means I haven't really cleaned it. I can hold the gun up to a light and look through the flash hole and into the barrel, and I don't see much in there besides a shiny barrel. The breech plug also doesn't seem that dirty. I've only been shooting in approx 28 degree to 34 degree weather. The IMR 4198 powder is a very clean powder imo.
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Post by james72 on Mar 17, 2023 23:03:37 GMT -5
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Post by SURESHOT on Mar 18, 2023 6:30:15 GMT -5
I made 2 trips to the range over the last week with my new CVA Scout and wanted to share my experience. I bought some Fury 265 STB, Fury 275 Star Tip, and AccuMax 278 HC bullets to try. I started with 58gr of 4198 and worked my way up 1 grain at a time shooting 3 shot groups with the different bullets. The first range session I used a wool wad and the Accumax bullets seemed to shoot the best (groups around 1" at 100 yards). I couldn't believe how bad the burnt wool smell was - the smell was still strong on my gun when getting home from the range. I decided to clean the gun and breach plug to rid the smell. I brushed the barrel, then used Bore Tech solvent, followed by Sea Foam, followed by dry patches. This method worked very well and didn't take much time (thanks ballistic). My next trip to the range I decided to try the same bullets and powder weights but without the wool wad. The Fury 275 shot much better without a wad (exactly what I was hoping for) and also performed better than the AccuMax bullets with or without a wad (best I could get out of the AccuMax without a wad was around 1.5"). I found the AccuMax was much harder to load than the Fury bullets (both bullets were run through the sizing die on the same setting). I could load the Fury bullets almost with one hand, the AccuMax bullets took both hands and a lot of force to get them down the barrel (especially the first 6-8 inches). Could this have caused the AccuMax bullets to not group well? I posted some pictures below of my best groups. I made a scope adjustment after the group at 61 grains and shot 2 more groups at 62 and 63 grains before running out of Fury bullets. I have ordered some more Fury 275 bullets and plan to see how this bullet will group at 200 yards on my next trip. I shot a total of about 65 rounds through the gun during the 2 trips to the range. I'm really happy with my results so far. Thanks again to several members on here who have offered valuable information and shortened my learning curve. View AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentJust my opinion, believe the Pittmans would have grouped tighter being swaged more, sounds like you had a great range day!
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Post by sew on Mar 18, 2023 10:07:27 GMT -5
My experience is that the same die setting will produce a looser fit with Furys that Pittmans. Furys also have less spring back. The annealing or near annealing of the bonded Fury bullet softens the jacket, to my understanding. That doesn’t mean that the Furys are better; rather, that more pass-thrus are required with the Pittmans and likely a slightly tighter setting.
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Post by james72 on Mar 18, 2023 10:56:54 GMT -5
My experience is that the same die setting will produce a looser fit with Furys that Pittmans. Furys also have less spring back. The annealing or near annealing of the bonded Fury bullet softens the jacket, to my understanding. That doesn’t mean that the Furys are better; rather, that more pass-thrus are required with the Pittmans and likely a slightly tighter setting. I may try a tighter setting on the die and see if the Pittmans shoot better. I was trying to use the same die setting for both. Not because I want to shoot both bullets from now on, but because in trying to determine which bullet shoots best out of my rifle I didn't want to go back and forth on the die setting. I remember in one of Hank's videos he suggested not making constant adjustments to the die. Is it ok to make adjustments back and forth (looser and tighter) when testing bullets, or is it best not to do that? BTW I was making 5 passes thru the die on the Pittmans, but they were still much harder to load than the Furys. I think probably because like you said the bonded Fury bullet has a softer jacket. Thanks.
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Post by SURESHOT on Mar 18, 2023 12:02:35 GMT -5
My experience is that the same die setting will produce a looser fit with Furys that Pittmans. Furys also have less spring back. The annealing or near annealing of the bonded Fury bullet softens the jacket, to my understanding. That doesn’t mean that the Furys are better; rather, that more pass-thrus are required with the Pittmans and likely a slightly tighter setting. I may try a tighter setting on the die and see if the Pittmans shoot better. I was trying to use the same die setting for both. Not because I want to shoot both bullets from now on, but because in trying to determine which bullet shoots best out of my rifle I didn't want to go back and forth on the die setting. I remember in one of Hank's videos he suggested not making constant adjustments to the die. Is it ok to make adjustments back and forth (looser and tighter) when testing bullets, or is it best not to do that? BTW I was making 5 passes thru the die on the Pittmans, but they were still much harder to load than the Furys. I think probably because like you said the bonded Fury bullet has a softer jacket. Thanks. Its better to have another die,, and IMO trying to compare two bullets with one a loose fit and the other a TIGHT fit I would think the results to be hard to compare. If I were to try this I would do one with my desired fit and then open the die back up re set it for the other bullet to a similar fit, load the same way as the other then compare,,,,
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Post by james72 on Mar 19, 2023 9:09:50 GMT -5
Its better to have another die,, and IMO trying to compare two bullets with one a loose fit and the other a TIGHT fit I would think the results to be hard to compare. If I were to try this I would do one with my desired fit and then open the die back up re set it for a similar fit, load the same way as the other then compare,,,, OK thanks I will give this a try and report back. I'm thinking the difference in die setting between the AccuMax and Fury is 4 or 5 marks on the die. Can I just loosen it up to that setting or do you need to loosen the die all the way up and start over?
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Post by james72 on Mar 29, 2023 20:36:05 GMT -5
I made another trip to the range today with the CVA Scout, but it was not a good one. Sorry to be so long winded, but I left the range today with more questions than answers. Hoping maybe some on here can help. After my last shooting session I had settled on Fury 275gr bullets (I shot several groups at or under 1 inch at 100 yards with 61-63 grains of 4198) but ran out of bullets before I could work my way up to the max load. I purchased more bullets and returned to the range today. I sized some bullets on the same die setting as before, but they felt tighter going down the barrel this time. I made 5 or 6 shots and was 10-12” high and was no longer shooting a good group. I measured these bullets at .4500 with my calipers. I decided to tighten the die a notch and try again, then one more notch. The bullets now measured .4495 and my zero had returned pretty close to where it was last session. I tried shooting a few groups and in the process I had a couple of misfires – meaning the primer fired but there was no powder burn to speak of. One time the bullet exited the barrel and one time it was about 2/3 of the way down the barrel. Each time I removed the breach plug and poured the powder out then pushed the bullet on through if it didn’t exit (picture below shows some of the powder left inside the barrel). This happened to me once before on a previous trip when shooting some Fury 265gr bullets that were really loose going down the barrel. After the 2 misfires, I tried a few more groups with wads and did not have any more problems except I couldn’t get my groups back below an inch like last trip. My questions are: 1. Would you expect a big difference when shooting the same bullet but one was sized at .4500 and the other at .4495 (groups really opened up and impacted 10-12” high on the tighter bullet)? 2. Do you think the misfires were likely due to the bullet not sealing off well enough and/or being too loose (I never had this problem when shooting with a wad)? 3. Anyone shooting a CVA Scout measure their bullet diameters? What size bullets shoot best from your gun? I was hoping to fine tune my gun today and try it at some longer ranges, but now I feel like I’m starting over again. Thanks in advance for any input.
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Post by hillbill on Mar 30, 2023 4:53:53 GMT -5
If you are having misfire issues you likely have your bullet too loose. This batch of bullets are likely slightly different in dimension, they do vary slightly from batch to batch.
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Post by SURESHOT on Mar 30, 2023 5:47:54 GMT -5
I have fired off alot of CVA SCOUTS, all but one have used the PITTMAN 275 with wads. No miss fires. I have another BLUE/BLACK scout I will be getting to the range in the next few days and again we are using the 275 Pittman
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Post by ballistic on Mar 30, 2023 8:10:04 GMT -5
.0005 is actually a big number when it comes to sizing. It’s enough to go from using a hammer to free falling for bullet sizing. 4198 will usually ignite with somewhat loose fitting rounds - like 1 finger to push down the tube. Some other possibilities that I have witnessed and had happen to me. I’ve had a wad and a patch stuck in the breechplug. A patch can be stuck if you don’t remove the spent module. The vacuum created when pulling the ramrod w patch back out can suck pieces of a patch right to the flash hole and plug it.
My findings on both .45 and .40 with bullet sizing. Pitmans vs Fury’s - fury’s need to be sized about 3 index sizes larger than the pitmans. As others have said - it’s best to get a dedicated die for the bullets you’re using. The dies don’t return to the exact setting when you move back and forth adjusting them.
Another consideration is the temps you were shooting in previously and now. As temps warm up -bullet fit will get tighter and harder to push down the barrel. I don’t think this is your issue. As Hillbill stated - your 1st lot of bullets is likley different than your 1st. If you find something that shoots really well -try to buy several boxes from the same lot number. I don’t have a CVA - but the above should apply to all muzzys. You will figure it out and hopefully it’s a simple fix.
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mateo
New Member
Posts: 40
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Post by mateo on Mar 30, 2023 8:18:32 GMT -5
I made another trip to the range today with the CVA Scout, but it was not a good one. Sorry to be so long winded, but I left the range today with more questions than answers. Hoping maybe some on here can help. After my last shooting session I had settled on Fury 275gr bullets (I shot several groups at or under 1 inch at 100 yards with 61-63 grains of 4198) but ran out of bullets before I could work my way up to the max load. I purchased more bullets and returned to the range today. I sized some bullets on the same die setting as before, but they felt tighter going down the barrel this time. I made 5 or 6 shots and was 10-12” high and was no longer shooting a good group. I measured these bullets at .4500 with my calipers. I decided to tighten the die a notch and try again, then one more notch. The bullets now measured .4495 and my zero had returned pretty close to where it was last session. I tried shooting a few groups and in the process I had a couple of misfires – meaning the primer fired but there was no powder burn to speak of. One time the bullet exited the barrel and one time it was about 2/3 of the way down the barrel. Each time I removed the breach plug and poured the powder out then pushed the bullet on through if it didn’t exit (picture below shows some of the powder left inside the barrel). This happened to me once before on a previous trip when shooting some Fury 265gr bullets that were really loose going down the barrel. After the 2 misfires, I tried a few more groups with wads and did not have any more problems except I couldn’t get my groups back below an inch like last trip. My questions are: 1. Would you expect a big difference when shooting the same bullet but one was sized at .4500 and the other at .4495 (groups really opened up and impacted 10-12” high on the tighter bullet)? 2. Do you think the misfires were likely due to the bullet not sealing off well enough and/or being too loose (I never had this problem when shooting with a wad)? 3. Anyone shooting a CVA Scout measure their bullet diameters? What size bullets shoot best from your gun? I was hoping to fine tune my gun today and try it at some longer ranges, but now I feel like I’m starting over again. Thanks in advance for any input. View AttachmentLike Hillbil said, sounds like your bullets are too loose. Are you sizing your bullets at the range or in a temperature controlled area? I size my Pittman 275 AcuMax in my garage at around 70 degree temperatures. I also use a wool wad. I run the bullet though the die 4 times. It took me quite a while to figure out this process, (I had to start over once), but my system is working great now. Some of what I'm going to say will depend on where you are located and what temperatures you are shooting your gun in. I'm shooting my gun in an average of 32 degree weather. I don't use anything to measure them, it's done by feel. If you are essentially starting over, I would get your breech plug and barrel clean so you know what you are starting with. I don't use any solvent in my barrel. I would shoot anywhere from 5 to 10 shots or so at the range and get your barrel good and fouled and leave it that way. If the bullets are a little loose for this portion then so be it, but they cant be so loose that you are getting misfires. Use a wool wad too, that will help. The only thing I do after a session of shooting is, I leave the breech plug alone (as long as you can still see through the flash channel), and I run a dry patch on a plastic insert from the muzzle and stop just short of the breech plug. I run in once, then back out, and I put another patch on, run in once and back out, and that's it. There won't be much on the patch, and that's good. I do this within an hour after shooting, usually in my garage. Then maybe wait a day or several hours for the gun and bullets to get acclimated to your "indoor" temperature, and size a bullet in a temperature controlled area. The bullets will/should be a pretty tight fit in a 70 degree room on a fouled barrel, (maybe 2 handed pressure?). Pull your breech plug and run your bullets through to check them. Some people will run every bullet through their gun this way to assure they will fit, but in my experience just one will do it. This is an important step and it must be done by feel. Start a little big, and slowly tighten your die until you can get the bullet to push through fairly firmly. Again, it's a feel thing, so it's kind of hard to describe it! Once I figured this process out correctly, I haven't had to change my sizing die at all. The last 60 or 70 shots I've taken have all been from the size I originally started at. Then only size up the amount of bullets you plan on shooting. For me, I will usually size up anywhere from 12 to 18 bullets at a time. Then while out at the range, provided you are shooting in colder weather than where you sized your bullets, the bullets and barrel will contract just a touch,(not much). Your 1st bullet you push down should push down with almost the same resistance it did while in your temperature controlled area, but it's possible that the 1st one could be slightly looser, it just depends on many variables. The rest of your bullets should push down slightly easier as you continue to shoot, as the fouling makes the barrel a little slicker, (at least that's how it is for me). Some other peoples experience is the 1st one is looser, and the rest are a touch tighter due to more fouling build up. It all depends on how much powder you are using, temperature, and humidity/etc. I use 65 grains of IMR 4198. I've put approx 130 rounds through mine in the last 2 months or so. It takes some time and testing, but you'll get there. Again, these guns shoot better "dirty", so don't go crazy cleaning things. I shot at least 60 shots without pulling the breech plug, and it shot just as good on the 1st shot as the last. I thought I was done shooting it a couple of weeks ago, (I've got my dope chart completed out to 300 yds), and was going to put the gun up until this fall, so I did pull the breech plug, cleaned it up a bit with brake cleaner, and ran a dry patch on a nylon 45 caliber brush from the breech end to the muzzle with (4) different dry patches. Then blew out the barrel with my air hose. I use dry spray lube on the breech plug. I put the plug back in and put the gun up. Then I ended up shooting it again the following Saturday just to test to see if the 1st shot was still holding zero at 100 yds. I took one shot, and it was within 1/4" of point of impact. I then stepped back to 200 yds and I put 2 shots 7/8" away from each other, about a 1/2" low. Good enough for me! I'm only sharing that so you know the process I've done works to hold zero. Hopefully this helps you in some way.
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Post by james72 on Mar 30, 2023 13:02:58 GMT -5
Thanks for the input guys. Hopefully I will eventually find the right recipe for my gun. My bullet is probably somewhere between .4495 and .4500 - my digital calipers will only read to that level of accuracy. My barrel (like others I have read about on here) is tighter for the first 6-8", so if I size a bullet for say 4 finger pressure at the muzzle end I can push it down with one finger the last 6 inches at the breech end. This is what made me wonder if my bullet was too loose possibly causing the misfires. I have been sizing my bullets at home inside (so around 70 degrees). I did size a few at the range, but both times I shot was around 60 degrees so shouldn't have made much difference. I did try several shots on my first trip to the range with a wool wad. I couldn't believe how strong the burnt wool smell was on my gun when I got home. I try to be as scent free as possible when hunting, so I decided to try and develop a load/bullet that would shoot good without a wad. Does anyone else notice a strong odor with the wool wad? Anyone had luck with a veggie wad or poly wad?
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mateo
New Member
Posts: 40
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Post by mateo on Mar 30, 2023 15:02:45 GMT -5
Thanks for the input guys. Hopefully I will eventually find the right recipe for my gun. My bullet is probably somewhere between .4495 and .4500 - my digital calipers will only read to that level of accuracy. My barrel (like others I have read about on here) is tighter for the first 6-8", so if I size a bullet for say 4 finger pressure at the muzzle end I can push it down with one finger the last 6 inches at the breech end. This is what made me wonder if my bullet was too loose possibly causing the misfires. I have been sizing my bullets at home inside (so around 70 degrees). I did size a few at the range, but both times I shot was around 60 degrees so shouldn't have made much difference. I did try several shots on my first trip to the range with a wool wad. I couldn't believe how strong the burnt wool smell was on my gun when I got home. I try to be as scent free as possible when hunting, so I decided to try and develop a load/bullet that would shoot good without a wad. Does anyone else notice a strong odor with the wool wad? Anyone had luck with a veggie wad or poly wad? I've never noticed the smell. Some people recommend wads, and others don't. I'm from Iowa, so hunting season between December and mid-way through January the temps can fluctuate from negative whatever all the way up to the 50's, with a lot or no humidity. I figured I'd use a wad to help with moisture issues if they do or did arise. I also wanted to use one since (like you commented above), my barrel was tighter for the 1st 6" or 8" or so. I can tell you after putting a lot of rounds through mine, I don't notice it being tighter for that 1st portion like I did when I first started, it seems to be one slick motion now. I think it kind of works it way out of it, but maybe it's just me. Mine shot great with the wads, so I never tried without them. I'd prefer not to use them as it's an annoying extra step you gotta do, but oh well. I tried putting just dot of glue on the bottom of the bullet at setting the bullet on the wad and let them dry. It worked well, except my grouping opened up a little bit because of it, so I stopped doing that. If shooting in 60 degree weather, you may want to let your barrel cool down at least 5 mins between shots, and maybe even 10 mins. I'm shooting in 32 degree weather, and I generally wait 5 mins between shots, but also found I could shoot one after the other and it didn't matter much.
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