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Post by jeepeater on Jan 24, 2023 19:01:56 GMT -5
Now it’s starting to make more sense. I have a good idea where this is coming from. Lol But what changes? Shooters attend or they don't. But, who's going to start a SML match that could become National?  And complaining about the NMLRA, isn't doing the sport any good. Believe me, the NRA will pay more attention to the NMLRA, than they will a small group of shooters. I posted this up kind of early, hoping it wouldn't bring up too much pisting and whinning. Well, I'll post the flyer when it comes out and those who want to shoot the match will show. LOL............ I'm 71 years young. I've had 11 surgeries since retirement. I had a rt knee replacement in July and 5wks later, it went bad and filled with bacteria. A week in the hospital, then 6wks on an IV at home, 24/7. I'm not out of the woods yet and will likely take antibiotics the rest of my days. That said............ I'll be there God willing, and I'll do just fine.  You took it as pissing and whining. A good portion of smokeless muzzleloading is here on this board, or at least contacts with a good portion of smokeless shooters. I don’t really care who’s putting a match on, but not being willing to say who, or even be willing to take suggestions, tells a lot. Take it for what it’s worth, call it what you want, I’m not going out of my way to attend a match where I already feel like something is….off. |
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Post by encore50a on Jan 24, 2023 19:13:27 GMT -5
But what changes? Shooters attend or they don't. But, who's going to start a SML match that could become National? And complaining about the NMLRA, isn't doing the sport any good. Believe me, the NRA will pay more attention to the NMLRA, than they will a small group of shooters. I posted this up kind of early, hoping it wouldn't bring up too much pisting and whinning. Well, I'll post the flyer when it comes out and those who want to shoot the match will show. LOL............ I'm 71 years young. I've had 11 surgeries since retirement. I had a rt knee replacement in July and 5wks later, it went bad and filled with bacteria. A week in the hospital, then 6wks on an IV at home, 24/7. I'm not out of the woods yet and will likely take antibiotics the rest of my days. That said............ I'll be there God willing, and I'll do just fine. You took it as pissing and whining. A good portion of smokeless muzzleloading is here on this board, or at least contacts with a good portion of smokeless shooters. I don’t really care who’s putting a match on, but not being willing to say who, or even be willing to take suggestions, tells a lot. Take it for what it’s worth, call it what you want, I’m not going out of my way to attend a match where I already feel like something is….off. Well if I felt like I'd come in last, I'd feel the same way. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. When things become finalized, WE will all know more. Good grief, its 5 months away and not finalized. SMH Maybe you could set up something that could become National over time? ?? Funny thing about this is............. the guy that runs this board is a builder of SML rifles. One would think that if people support the builder/s, they'd want to promote organized matches. I or those who are starting this inaugural match, which I don't know all, don't want anyone going out of their way to attend. |
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Post by jeepeater on Jan 24, 2023 19:32:13 GMT -5
You took it as pissing and whining. A good portion of smokeless muzzleloading is here on this board, or at least contacts with a good portion of smokeless shooters. I don’t really care who’s putting a match on, but not being willing to say who, or even be willing to take suggestions, tells a lot. Take it for what it’s worth, call it what you want, I’m not going out of my way to attend a match where I already feel like something is….off. Well if I felt like I'd come in last, I'd feel the same way. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. When things become finalized, WE will all know more. Good grief, its 5 months away and not finalized. SMH Maybe you could set up something that could become National over time? ?? Funny thing about this is............. the guy that runs this board is a builder of SML rifles. One would think that if people support the builder/s, they'd want to promote organized matches. I or those who are starting this inaugural match, which I don't know all, don't want anyone going out of their way to attend. You don’t trust the guy that builds one of the ignition systems you specifically excluded, obviously. You’re excluding shooters that use that ignition, but you want shooters. Makes sense |
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Post by encore50a on Jan 24, 2023 19:45:55 GMT -5
Well if I felt like I'd come in last, I'd feel the same way. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. When things become finalized, WE will all know more. Good grief, its 5 months away and not finalized. SMH Maybe you could set up something that could become National over time? ?? Funny thing about this is............. the guy that runs this board is a builder of SML rifles. One would think that if people support the builder/s, they'd want to promote organized matches. I or those who are starting this inaugural match, which I don't know all, don't want anyone going out of their way to attend. You don’t trust the guy that builds one of the ignition systems you specifically excluded, obviously. You’re excluding shooters that use that ignition, but you want shooters. Makes sense Again, I'm a messenger. Its not a "YOU". The rules are rules. They may change, they may not change. If I were a builder of SML rifles and it was an income for me, believe me, I'd support ANY SML shoot, match, gathering, or funeral. In case you don't realize it, not every SML shooter uses DI. I would bet that much, much more don't than do. Attend or don't. That's totally up to you or anyone else on the board. Its being offered. Those that refuse to attend are certainly welcome to take their ball and go home. |
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Post by jeepeater on Jan 24, 2023 20:06:07 GMT -5
You don’t trust the guy that builds one of the ignition systems you specifically excluded, obviously. You’re excluding shooters that use that ignition, but you want shooters. Makes sense Again, I'm a messenger. Its not a "YOU". The rules are rules. They may change, they may not change. If I were a builder of SML rifles and it was an income for me, believe me, I'd support ANY SML shoot, match, gathering, or funeral. In case you don't realize it, not every SML shooter uses DI. I would bet that much, much more don't than do. Attend or don't. That's totally up to you or anyone else on the board. Its being offered. Those that refuse to attend are certainly welcome to take their ball and go home. Fair enough, you’re a messenger, definitely not a promoter. Lol |
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Post by nick50471 on Jan 24, 2023 20:28:20 GMT -5
If you were to look at my rifle, would you be able to determine rather it was smokeless capable? There will be builders there and I would suggest they will know. I'd ask this question............ Can someone please tell me who might be trying to setup a National SML shoot? I'll wait........... Rules are made but not everyone of them set in stone but, they apply to everyone. Get the inaugural match going with participation and make suggestions to the range officer. Hopefully there will be enough participation that it will continue into the future. If not, well, the shooters have nobody to blame but themselves. I don’t know of anyone else attempting to set up a national smokless event. I do know modeling it after NMLRA is a terrible idea. Also, I would definitely take into consideration any suggestions put forth from guys who actually shoot smokeless muzzleloaders as a passion, as they’re your target for active participation. This forum has a wealth of knowledge on just that subject. But, that’s just my little opinion. The Kentucky Challenge and the Midwest Muzzleloader Classic are both “National” events. Not sure what you mean. I would be happy to hold a 1000 yard match at my range with better common sense rules if that is needed. |
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Post by ballistic on Jan 24, 2023 21:02:06 GMT -5
I think you have to start somewhere to have a match and thanks encore50 for communicating this.
A valid argument for direct vs HIS for example:
Would you be able to load on a spent primer for HIS/ASG ?
If not those little sticks of 4198 fall down into the bolt body and action. This could create a safety issue right ? 4895 powder could be used I guess ?
Direct -no worries with that but removing it and standing the gun upright -yes not a good thing- spilled powder.
Could bolts be removed from actions before shooting ?
And how would you deal with break actions with direct ignition - another issue.- unless you could store them barrel down. Or block them from closing ?
I’m a competitor- and like to get the most that I can out of a combo to give me the competitive edge. My 16 lb .40 cal could do really well in an event like this if I could use a rear bag.
Not being able to use the rear bag - sounds like an event set up by those that aren’t using rear bags - advantage for them. For those that aren’t used to shooting without rear bags or support = expect to loose to those that are experienced doing this.
I could change my setup to HIS - but the no rear bag rule and long range precision aren’t for me. A shooter has a lot to do at 1000 yards -light conditions/wind/temps of equipment/ mirage and many other factors. I’m not sure how many on this board are prone shooters - I am - so advantage for me.
In PRS or similar steel shoots - it’s not often that a shooter can’t use a rear rest. Some of the strap and bag combos are very creative to say the least. I’m also a longer range hunter than most. I live out west where open big canyons are the norm. I use a rear bag every chance I can. If a shots long and I can’t get the position for the rear support - I won’t try the shot.
I would also be bored shooting at paper for score with 10 shots. A steel plate with diminishing sizes for score - that sounds like fun. Again - this shoot has its own rules and how many of these shoots have there been ? Really none -right ?
But as encore50 said - he’s just the messenger. I’m glad he’s posting an event - it’s just not for me with the current rules. Thank you one more time to encore50. Post the match when it comes out. My apologies in advance if I have offended.
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Post by hillbill on Jan 24, 2023 21:37:49 GMT -5
I think you have to start somewhere to have a match and thanks encore50 for communicating this. A valid argument for direct vs HIS for example: Would you be able to load on a spent primer for HIS/ASG ? If not those little sticks of 4198 fall down into the bolt body and action. This could create a safety issue right ? 4895 powder could be used I guess ? Direct -no worries with that but removing it and standing the gun upright -yes not a good thing- spilled powder. Could bolts be removed from actions before shooting ? And how would you deal with break actions with direct ignition - another issue.- unless you could store them barrel down. Or block them from closing ? I’m a competitor- and like to get the most that I can out of a combo to give me the competitive edge. My 16 lb .40 cal could do really well in an event like this if I could use a rear bag. Not being able to use the rear bag - sounds like an event set up by those that aren’t using rear bags - advantage for them. For those that aren’t used to shooting without rear bags or support = expect to loose to those that are experienced doing this. I could change my setup to HIS - but the no rear bag rule and long range precision aren’t for me. A shooter has a lot to do at 1000 yards -light conditions/wind/temps of equipment/ mirage and many other factors. I’m not sure how many on this board are prone shooters - I am - so advantage for me. In PRS or similar steel shoots - it’s not often that a shooter can’t use a rear rest. Some of the strap and bag combos are very creative to say the least. I’m also a longer range hunter than most. I live out west where open big canyons are the norm. I use a rear bag every chance I can. If a shots long and I can’t get the position for the rear support - I won’t try the shot. I would also be bored shooting at paper for score with 10 shots. A steel plate with diminishing sizes for score - that sounds like fun. Again - this shoot has its own rules and how many of these shoots have there been ? Really none -right ? But as encore50 said - he’s just the messenger. I’m glad he’s posting an event - it’s just not for me with the current rules. Thank you one more time to encore50. Post the match when it comes out. My apologies in advance if I have offended. Ok Guys, after reading through all this I think some are getting overly excited. While I don't agree with some of the rules set forth I can also choose not to attend If I feel they don't fit they way I shoot.
We can all agree that a 1000 yard match can be a good thing and I'm sure many would like to attend, we had one a couple years back and it was a blast, everyone had a good time.
Can rules change in the next 5 months? Yep, I would thinks so, If not?
Wherever one shoots we abide by the rules set forth by the range operators or we don't shoot, I don't know who is making the rules and we might not agree with them but as he said, don't shoot the messenger.
If I shoot DI in my match gun, and I have before, it's as simple as removing the bolt and sliding it back in when the range goes hot, as safe as having a spent primer in place.
Break actions participating in a 1000 yd match? I doubt it but they can be loaded broken down easy enough?
We may think some of the rules are silly BUT we didn't make them?
I'm not landing in anyone's camp here, I do however commend the messenger for bringing the mail.
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Post by ballistic on Jan 24, 2023 22:07:23 GMT -5
I think you have to start somewhere to have a match and thanks encore50 for communicating this. A valid argument for direct vs HIS for example: Would you be able to load on a spent primer for HIS/ASG ? If not those little sticks of 4198 fall down into the bolt body and action. This could create a safety issue right ? 4895 powder could be used I guess ? Direct -no worries with that but removing it and standing the gun upright -yes not a good thing- spilled powder. Could bolts be removed from actions before shooting ? And how would you deal with break actions with direct ignition - another issue.- unless you could store them barrel down. Or block them from closing ? I’m a competitor- and like to get the most that I can out of a combo to give me the competitive edge. My 16 lb .40 cal could do really well in an event like this if I could use a rear bag. Not being able to use the rear bag - sounds like an event set up by those that aren’t using rear bags - advantage for them. For those that aren’t used to shooting without rear bags or support = expect to loose to those that are experienced doing this. I could change my setup to HIS - but the no rear bag rule and long range precision aren’t for me. A shooter has a lot to do at 1000 yards -light conditions/wind/temps of equipment/ mirage and many other factors. I’m not sure how many on this board are prone shooters - I am - so advantage for me. In PRS or similar steel shoots - it’s not often that a shooter can’t use a rear rest. Some of the strap and bag combos are very creative to say the least. I’m also a longer range hunter than most. I live out west where open big canyons are the norm. I use a rear bag every chance I can. If a shots long and I can’t get the position for the rear support - I won’t try the shot. I would also be bored shooting at paper for score with 10 shots. A steel plate with diminishing sizes for score - that sounds like fun. Again - this shoot has its own rules and how many of these shoots have there been ? Really none -right ? But as encore50 said - he’s just the messenger. I’m glad he’s posting an event - it’s just not for me with the current rules. Thank you one more time to encore50. Post the match when it comes out. My apologies in advance if I have offended. Ok Guys, after reading through all this I think some are getting overly excited. While I don't agree with some of the rules set forth I can also choose not to attend If I feel they don't fit they way I shoot.
We can all agree that a 1000 yard match can be a good thing and I'm sure many would like to attend, we had one a couple years back and it was a blast, everyone had a good time.
Can rules change in the next 5 months? Yep, I would thinks so, If not?
Wherever one shoots we abide by the rules set forth by the range operators or we don't shoot, I don't know who is making the rules and we might not agree with them but as he said, don't shoot the messenger.
If I shoot DI in my match gun, and I have before, it's as simple as removing the bolt and sliding it back in when the range goes hot, as safe as having a spent primer in place.
Break actions participating in a 1000 yd match? I doubt it but they can be loaded broken down easy enough?
We may think some of the rules are silly BUT we didn't make them?
I'm not landing in anyone's camp here, I do however commend the messenger for bringing the mail.
Bill I’m not entirely sure if my post is out of line. If it is I apologized in advance on my last post - bottom. I will do so again on this one. Encore50a is doing us a favor by advertising a future shoot. Again - my apologies if I have offended - especially encore50a. |
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Post by hillbill on Jan 24, 2023 22:18:07 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is necessarily out of line, but it could get out of hand if it continues in the direction it's going.
What about this?
I would seriously think about attending IF_____(suggestion)_______and let encore50a take it to the powers that be and see IF they will modify their rules? If not? no one is twisting our arm to participate.
Those that choose to with current rules intact will certainly be free to do so.
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Post by Richard on Jan 25, 2023 19:25:26 GMT -5
Well said Bill!
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Post by nick50471 on Jan 26, 2023 9:49:56 GMT -5
I would really like the rules committee to at least consider letting those that wish to participate with rifles over 17lbs and a rear bag do so on an “At will” basis. This means they pay to shoot the match but will not be included in the winnings. This will hopefully increase the number of shooters and show the range management what we do.
As always I would be happy to talk to anyone at the range to answer any questions they might have.
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Post by encore50a on Jan 26, 2023 12:38:47 GMT -5
I would really like the rules committee to at least consider letting those that wish to participate with rifles over 17lbs and a rear bag do so on an “At will” basis. This means they pay to shoot the match but will not be included in the winnings. This will hopefully increase the number of shooters and show the range management what we do. As always I would be happy to talk to anyone at the range to answer any questions they might have. This is just and opinion, but it wouldn't matter to me if someone was shooting a rifle weighing 25#. I have no problem suggesting that to Chris. As far as the rear bag, I don't think they're going to budge on that but...... it doesn't matter to me. However, I believe it might be a total different story with DI. I believe you talked with Chris? |
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Post by buckeye68 on Jan 26, 2023 14:01:21 GMT -5
I would really like the rules committee to at least consider letting those that wish to participate with rifles over 17lbs and a rear bag do so on an “At will” basis. This means they pay to shoot the match but will not be included in the winnings. This will hopefully increase the number of shooters and show the range management what we do. As always I would be happy to talk to anyone at the range to answer any questions they might have. This is just and opinion, but it wouldn't matter to me if someone was shooting a rifle weighing 25#. I have no problem suggesting that to Chris. As far as the rear bag, I don't think they're going to budge on that but...... it doesn't matter to me. However, I believe it might be a total different story with DI. I believe you talked with Chris? How is a loaded muzzlerloader with a live DI model with no bolt installed in the action any different than having a box of rifle cartages laying on the bench? |
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Post by nick50471 on Jan 26, 2023 18:20:59 GMT -5
I would really like the rules committee to at least consider letting those that wish to participate with rifles over 17lbs and a rear bag do so on an “At will” basis. This means they pay to shoot the match but will not be included in the winnings. This will hopefully increase the number of shooters and show the range management what we do. As always I would be happy to talk to anyone at the range to answer any questions they might have. This is just and opinion, but it wouldn't matter to me if someone was shooting a rifle weighing 25#. I have no problem suggesting that to Chris. As far as the rear bag, I don't think they're going to budge on that but...... it doesn't matter to me. However, I believe it might be a total different story with DI. I believe you talked with Chris? Yes we have spoken and texted. Not about rules other than the 17lb limit. He was more after range stuff. I do not understand the no rear bag. What is the reasoning behind allowing a full front rest but no rear bag. I apologize but I just don’t see the angle for this rule. Any insight will be helpful. I have never shot at any NMLRA match. Nor will I until they become more forward thinking and allow the rifles I shoot. I have participated in many muzzleloader matches and centerfire matches and the only time you pull the rear bag from a shooter in a match is to make it more difficult. Was the scoring so good at the last one that group size tie breakers at 1000 yards didn’t work? |
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Post by encore50a on Jan 26, 2023 18:41:31 GMT -5
This is just and opinion, but it wouldn't matter to me if someone was shooting a rifle weighing 25#. I have no problem suggesting that to Chris. As far as the rear bag, I don't think they're going to budge on that but...... it doesn't matter to me. However, I believe it might be a total different story with DI. I believe you talked with Chris? Yes we have spoken and texted. Not about rules other than the 17lb limit. He was more after range stuff. I do not understand the no rear bag. What is the reasoning behind allowing a full front rest but no rear bag. I apologize but I just don’t see the angle for this rule. Any insight will be helpful. I have never shot at any NMLRA match. Nor will I until they become more forward thinking and allow the rifles I shoot. I have participated in many muzzleloader matches and centerfire matches and the only time you pull the rear bag from a shooter in a match is to make it more difficult. Was the scoring so good at the last one that group size tie breakers at 1000 yards didn’t work? As I understand it, the intent is to be more like hunting, shooting off just a bipod. Now the bipod vs front rest........... I believe the front rest was included, as some shooters don't use a bipod, nor have an attachment. Others may have a really wide forearm and no bipod attachment. I think that is the reason for including front rests. Last June when we shot at Atterbury shooting BH209, there were no rear rests allowed then either, plus we were shooting off cross sticks. All of us that shot were new to that type of long range shooting. I'd never shot prone in my life and ended up taking 1st place. Proof, even a blind squirrel can find a nut. Everything must have a beginning and an end. Although it may not be perfect and some dislike the rules, if we can just get it started and show the Match Director that there's a high interest, THEN we work on rules. |
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Post by buckeye68 on Jan 26, 2023 19:04:35 GMT -5
Yes we have spoken and texted. Not about rules other than the 17lb limit. He was more after range stuff. I do not understand the no rear bag. What is the reasoning behind allowing a full front rest but no rear bag. I apologize but I just don’t see the angle for this rule. Any insight will be helpful. I have never shot at any NMLRA match. Nor will I until they become more forward thinking and allow the rifles I shoot. I have participated in many muzzleloader matches and centerfire matches and the only time you pull the rear bag from a shooter in a match is to make it more difficult. Was the scoring so good at the last one that group size tie breakers at 1000 yards didn’t work? As I understand it, the intent is to be more like hunting, shooting off just a bipod. Now the bipod vs front rest........... I believe the front rest was included, as some shooters don't use a bipod, nor have an attachment. Others may have a really wide forearm and no bipod attachment. I think that is the reason for including front rests. Last June when we shot at Atterbury shooting BH209, there were no rear rests allowed then either, plus we were shooting off cross sticks. All of us that shot were new to that type of long range shooting. I'd never shot prone in my life and ended up taking 1st place. Proof, even a blind squirrel can find a nut. Everything must have a beginning and an end. Although it may not be perfect and some dislike the rules, if we can just get it started and show the Match Director that there's a high interest, THEN we work on rules. And how many shooters did you have at this match that you got first place in? |
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Post by nick50471 on Jan 26, 2023 19:12:36 GMT -5
Yes we have spoken and texted. Not about rules other than the 17lb limit. He was more after range stuff. I do not understand the no rear bag. What is the reasoning behind allowing a full front rest but no rear bag. I apologize but I just don’t see the angle for this rule. Any insight will be helpful. I have never shot at any NMLRA match. Nor will I until they become more forward thinking and allow the rifles I shoot. I have participated in many muzzleloader matches and centerfire matches and the only time you pull the rear bag from a shooter in a match is to make it more difficult. Was the scoring so good at the last one that group size tie breakers at 1000 yards didn’t work? As I understand it, the intent is to be more like hunting, shooting off just a bipod. Now the bipod vs front rest........... I believe the front rest was included, as some shooters don't use a bipod, nor have an attachment. Others may have a really wide forearm and no bipod attachment. I think that is the reason for including front rests. Last June when we shot at Atterbury shooting BH209, there were no rear rests allowed then either, plus we were shooting off cross sticks. All of us that shot were new to that type of long range shooting. I'd never shot prone in my life and ended up taking 1st place. Proof, even a blind squirrel can find a nut. Everything must have a beginning and an end. Although it may not be perfect and some dislike the rules, if we can just get it started and show the Match Director that there's a high interest, THEN we work on rules. that’s where you lose me. If anyone is hunting long range and not supported in the rear they are very foolish. I really hope this match takes off and it will if someone uses some common sense. |
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Post by encore50a on Jan 26, 2023 19:15:01 GMT -5
As I understand it, the intent is to be more like hunting, shooting off just a bipod. Now the bipod vs front rest........... I believe the front rest was included, as some shooters don't use a bipod, nor have an attachment. Others may have a really wide forearm and no bipod attachment. I think that is the reason for including front rests. Last June when we shot at Atterbury shooting BH209, there were no rear rests allowed then either, plus we were shooting off cross sticks. All of us that shot were new to that type of long range shooting. I'd never shot prone in my life and ended up taking 1st place. Proof, even a blind squirrel can find a nut. Everything must have a beginning and an end. Although it may not be perfect and some dislike the rules, if we can just get it started and show the Match Director that there's a high interest, THEN we work on rules. And how many shooters did you have at this match that you got first place in? If it matters, there were 4 of us shooting modern inlines. The other 3 modern inline shooters are all National Champions. Of the 30 shooters there, I had 3rd highest score. |
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Post by encore50a on Jan 26, 2023 19:21:05 GMT -5
As I understand it, the intent is to be more like hunting, shooting off just a bipod. Now the bipod vs front rest........... I believe the front rest was included, as some shooters don't use a bipod, nor have an attachment. Others may have a really wide forearm and no bipod attachment. I think that is the reason for including front rests. Last June when we shot at Atterbury shooting BH209, there were no rear rests allowed then either, plus we were shooting off cross sticks. All of us that shot were new to that type of long range shooting. I'd never shot prone in my life and ended up taking 1st place. Proof, even a blind squirrel can find a nut. Everything must have a beginning and an end. Although it may not be perfect and some dislike the rules, if we can just get it started and show the Match Director that there's a high interest, THEN we work on rules. that’s where you lose me. If anyone is hunting long range and not supported in the rear they are very foolish. I really hope this match takes off and it will if someone uses some common sense. Its pretty easy to shoot 100yds and put 5 rounds in a single hole with a rear rest. Its also pretty easy to shoot 600yds and keep it at .3moa with a rear rest. No rear rest tests the shooter, not the rifle. Might want to text Chris. |
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