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Post by GMB54-120 on Nov 25, 2022 12:44:56 GMT -5
For me its just a matter of need/want and thats a low weight 40cal that will never see larger bullets unless i grab some BH209 and big soft lead conicals. Im not against using a "nut less" barrel either unless the cost and weight push it too high. I have absolutely no place i can shoot past 300 and 200 is far more likely.
Its pretty much the same reason i want a Howa Mini 6.5 Grendel. The added ballistics of the 6.5CM just dont offer me anything i would need to hunt deer in my situation. I would much rather have far less weight to lug around. I just shelled out almost $300 to lighten and shorten my fast twist 45 smoker and wont give up a thing with the load i like shooting.....Other than about 3/4 of a pound and 3" of barrel. I can still shoot a 420gr over 1300fps and that will smoke any deer within 200 yards easy.
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Post by mike on Nov 25, 2022 13:01:24 GMT -5
My contribution to this thread is: consider the scope/stock combination, specifically the objective lens diameter, to make sure your selected stock will allow the shooter to acquire their desired cheek-weld. My very expensive mistake was the standard supplied Boyd's varmint thumbhole stock on my Hankins SPML-45 combined with the 52mm objective lens of the scope, caused me to have to lower my desired cheek-bone-weld to a lower jaw-weld. haha Certainly not an accurate way to shoot and so uncomfortable I bought a Hankins CVA Apex SPML and put the heavy gun aside for a couple years. I saved up and finally had Jeff replace the Boyd's thumbhole with a Manners MCS-4A. Having the adjustable comb, for me, makes all the difference in the world getting my eye in-line with the scope while maintaining my normal solid cheek-bone-weld. While I'll never be a champion marksman, just a hunter, I enjoy shooting the heavy gun much more now since it is more comfortable and as a result, I am certainly more accurate.
The other mistake I made was ordering my heavy gun without a muzzle brake. While I had no problem absorbing the recoil from using 78 grains of 4198 to launch a Pittman 275, I was strongly encouraged by Kyle and Jeff to install a brake since I decided to shoot Pittman 328's with 105 grains of 4895. I'm a pretty big guy and could probably handle the non-brake hammering, but at the ripe old age of 65, I decided I don't need to torture myself to have fun.
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Post by mike on Nov 25, 2022 13:10:32 GMT -5
My contribution to this thread is: consider the scope/stock combination, specifically the objective lens diameter, to make sure your selected stock will allow the shooter to acquire their desired cheek-weld. My very expensive mistake was the standard supplied Boyd's varmint thumbhole stock on my Hankins SPML-45 combined with the 52mm objective lens of the scope, caused me to have to lower my desired cheek-bone-weld to a lower jaw-weld. haha Certainly not an accurate way to shoot and so uncomfortable I bought a Hankins CVA Apex SPML and put the heavy gun aside for a couple years. I saved up and finally had Jeff replace the Boyd's thumbhole with a Manners MCS-4A. Having the adjustable comb, for me, makes all the difference in the world getting my eye in-line with the scope while maintaining my normal solid cheek-bone-weld. While I'll never be a champion marksman, just a hunter, I enjoy shooting the heavy gun much more now since it is more comfortable and as a result, I am certainly more accurate. The other mistake I made was ordering my heavy gun without a muzzle brake. While I had no problem absorbing the recoil from using 78 grains of 4198 to launch a Pittman 275, I was strongly encouraged by Kyle and Jeff to install a brake since I decided to shoot Pittman 328's with 105 grains of 4895. I'm a pretty big guy and could probably handle the non-brake hammering, but at the ripe old age of 65, I decided I don't need to torture myself to have fun. After spending Wednesday at the range shooting my sweet little Hankins converted CVA Apex, 65 grains of 4198 pushing a Hornady FTX 250 averaging 2,620 fps over 18 shots, I may consider having Jeff mount a muzzle-brake. I guess I'm getting soft in my old-age. haha
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Post by Ice on Nov 25, 2022 19:02:11 GMT -5
My mistake is not starting SOONER!
Additionally, if you’re learning, there are no mistakes just learning opportunities! I do like reading what others consider “mistakes.” It helps me save money while I am learning.
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Post by sew on Nov 25, 2022 21:32:56 GMT -5
My contribution to this thread is: consider the scope/stock combination, specifically the objective lens diameter, to make sure your selected stock will allow the shooter to acquire their desired cheek-weld. My very expensive mistake was the standard supplied Boyd's varmint thumbhole stock on my Hankins SPML-45 combined with the 52mm objective lens of the scope, caused me to have to lower my desired cheek-bone-weld to a lower jaw-weld. haha Certainly not an accurate way to shoot and so uncomfortable I bought a Hankins CVA Apex SPML and put the heavy gun aside for a couple years. I saved up and finally had Jeff replace the Boyd's thumbhole with a Manners MCS-4A. Having the adjustable comb, for me, makes all the difference in the world getting my eye in-line with the scope while maintaining my normal solid cheek-bone-weld. While I'll never be a champion marksman, just a hunter, I enjoy shooting the heavy gun much more now since it is more comfortable and as a result, I am certainly more accurate. The other mistake I made was ordering my heavy gun without a muzzle brake. While I had no problem absorbing the recoil from using 78 grains of 4198 to launch a Pittman 275, I was strongly encouraged by Kyle and Jeff to install a brake since I decided to shoot Pittman 328's with 105 grains of 4895. I'm a pretty big guy and could probably handle the non-brake hammering, but at the ripe old age of 65, I decided I don't need to torture myself to have fun. After spending Wednesday at the range shooting my sweet little Hankins converted CVA Apex, 65 grains of 4198 pushing a Hornady FTX 250 averaging 2,620 fps over 18 shots, I may consider having Jeff mount a muzzle-brake. I guess I'm getting soft in my old-age. haha I think a lot of us can’t imagine shooting that w/o a MB.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Nov 27, 2022 12:17:28 GMT -5
My NULA will shoot a 275gr at almost 2450fps and the rifle weighs 7.6lbs ready to hunt. Its no fun to shoot that load on the bench. Its not brutal but it is unpleasant. Sure is nice to carry in the field though. Woodman is selling Patriot 45s now that will handle Encore and break action type loads but the rifle is much lighter. It was a little over a grand for a 6lbish 45 with a Brux barrel and his high pressure plug. Right at a grand for the McGowen and the upgraded plug.
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Post by jeffb1961 on May 15, 2023 14:49:43 GMT -5
i have a 45 brux patriot being made and Mark is threading the barrel for the brake he is making for it along with the thread cap to protect the threads when hunting . biggest recoil i've felt is a 30-06 so i thought the MB would be a worthwhile investment for my experience ..... or rather lack of experience .
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Post by 445supermag on May 16, 2023 23:11:30 GMT -5
Ok for me. I have 2 SML. One is my McWhorter 45xml and the other is a tc encore with Jeff's barrel and breech plug
My McWhorter is perfect like literally perfect to me. Nothing I would change. Literally nothing.
My tc encore 45 is fantastic and shoots great. But. I just wish I could sell it or atleast the barrel and stock that I got from Jeff. Reason is I would put that money into a full custom build from Jeff but in .40 cal. With a large chamber.
That's it
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Post by lbahunter on May 19, 2023 18:58:09 GMT -5
I started out with a CVA Optima V2 50. It served me well but I wanted something better than a blackpowder/sub gun. I was looking for lower recoil, better velocity, easier maintaining and more versatility. I started looking and researching on the 3 boards (MML, Doug's, Hank's). The CVA Scout 45-70 conversion was what I decided to do. I researched the conversions more. I looked at the saami drawing for 45-70. I got measurements on different breech plugs. I settled on a plug that suited the type of loads I wanted to shoot. I have been very happy with my Scout. Its purpose is a </=150 yard low recoil deer killing gun. It suits that purpose very well. I fully believe it would be capable of more. I wish I had done sooner......
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Post by fatfred on May 19, 2023 22:02:31 GMT -5
Yep. 150 yds is hard to come by where I hunt. If longer, the chances I can get the perfect rest is poor. A point and shoot ML is nice. Sighted properly with even medium loads at mid-2000 fps, you can sight in where you are +/- 3" of POA is a nothing burger on a deer out to 150-200 yds.
As for what I would do differently? Use metimucil every day now.
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Post by jeffb1961 on Jun 16, 2023 8:04:20 GMT -5
My NULA will shoot a 275gr at almost 2450fps and the rifle weighs 7.6lbs ready to hunt. Its no fun to shoot that load on the bench. Its not brutal but it is unpleasant. Sure is nice to carry in the field though. Woodman is selling Patriot 45s now that will handle Encore and break action type loads but the rifle is much lighter. It was a little over a grand for a 6lbish 45 with a Brux barrel and his high pressure plug. Right at a grand for the McGowen and the upgraded plug. thanks folks . mark is threading the Brux barrel for a muzzle brake that he's also making for me as well as a thread cap so that will help mitigate the recoil when i get to heavier loads , and i have a pair of walker XCEL 500BT to protect my ears . i'm going with the stock plug for now since i'll be starting with sabots but i will upgrade to his HP plug when i'm ready to get Hanks sizer and a sizing press . i placed my order in january so hopefully it's ready in july , but i am getting extra work/parts so it may take a little longer . FWIU it's going to be well worth the wait . sorry , didn't see my post above . this can be deleted or left ........
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Post by Sideshow on Aug 4, 2023 20:38:17 GMT -5
What is the exact weight of the Mesa muzzleloader action less pic rail ?? No place have i found this spoke of . Thank you !!! It seems that a Defiance An-ti is made out of un-obtainium these days.....
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Post by ballistic on Aug 6, 2023 15:02:15 GMT -5
Ok for me. I have 2 SML. One is my McWhorter 45xml and the other is a tc encore with Jeff's barrel and breech plug My McWhorter is perfect like literally perfect to me. Nothing I would change. Literally nothing. My tc encore 45 is fantastic and shoots great. But. I just wish I could sell it or atleast the barrel and stock that I got from Jeff. Reason is I would put that money into a full custom build from Jeff but in .40 cal. With a large chamber. That's it Just a suggestion with an encore ..40 build. I have spent close to 1 year on the phone with MGM and bullbery -in hurricane utah. I recently stopped at Bullberry yesterday to try and talk the owner into machining what I wanted. Bullberry has a unique hanger system that has past guarantees of 1/2 moa. Problem is the dovetails cut .100 into the barrel which causes a weak spot just ahead of the plug threads. And then holes are drilled .150 into the top where the base sits -another weak spot above and ahead of the plug. Here’s the math. .40 hole in a 1” barrel leaves .30” of metal. Take .100 off for the dovetails = .200 barrel Take .150 off for the mounts = .150 barrel Those are weak spots where pressure is at its peak. My criteria is a brux .40 cal barrel -nothing else will work. The other weld options for the scope base and bottom dovetails still wouldn’t work for my requirements. The bottom stock/foreman systems of what’s available from MGM are not accurate enough compared to Bullberrys hanger -JMO. The preferred barrel is an option from Jeff at Hankins but I’m done with anything except brux for a .40 or .45. Also : You would want a 9/16 plug if you were going to build a .40/.45 and you wouldn’t want a powder chamber as it would weaken anything ahead of the end of the plugs threads. And the .40 builds pressure faster than the .40. I really want an encore barreled .40 badly. After reasoning that I could shorten a muzzy close to 6” compared to a rifle action I had 2 possible build scenarios. Encore with a 29” barrel welded on the base and dovetails on the foreman. No chamber and keep speeds at 2700 fps with 275 grain bullets. Or Standard rifle action 23” barrel running a brux #6. This is 1.250” diameter for 5”. Run a 5/8 plug from jeff and a powder chamber of 70-80 grains. Faster powders might yield higher speeds or equal to 2700 fps. The thick chamber area of 1.250” doesn’t have anything drilled or dovetailed into it Safety is the last item - but needs to be the 1st actually. Both guns would weigh approx 9 lbs without scope. So I have decided to go with a centerfire action and it brings me much sadness because I really wanted a .40 encore. My suggestion if you want a .40 Talk to Jeff and see if he can build your .40 welded for attachments. I believe he will. Not sure you can get it in a brux barrel -call him.
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Post by reaperhunterkuks on Aug 6, 2023 16:36:57 GMT -5
Hello all. Very new to this forum and about to be very new to the SML world. Not new to muzzleloading though. My apologies if I’m using the wrong thread as I am just getting used to this message board. I just bought a new CVA scout and sent the barrel out to get last week. I am from upstate New York. The worst state ever for a gun owner. Lol. I am primarily a bow hunter, but when I do gun hunt it is the ML I like to take with me.
I have a few questions if you all could help with please. I am having a very hard time finding large magnum rifle primers for my new build. Wondering if this is just another New York thing that I have to deal with? Second question. I know what scale I am going to buy but….What powder holders do you all recommend for the field as in hunting? I have always used pellets in my TC unfortunately. Third question and hopefully last, but I doubt it. Lol. How many shots do you all consider a new build to be broken in? 100ish?
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Post by hillbill on Aug 6, 2023 17:34:59 GMT -5
Last first No break in period with a custom barrel like a center fire, no throat to break in. I carry powder in tubes available from Pittman, have also used spent brass cases with powder volume to match load and vacuum caps for tops
You can use standard large rifle primers instead of magnum
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Post by hillbill on Aug 6, 2023 18:38:21 GMT -5
Ok for me. I have 2 SML. One is my McWhorter 45xml and the other is a tc encore with Jeff's barrel and breech plug My McWhorter is perfect like literally perfect to me. Nothing I would change. Literally nothing. My tc encore 45 is fantastic and shoots great. But. I just wish I could sell it or atleast the barrel and stock that I got from Jeff. Reason is I would put that money into a full custom build from Jeff but in .40 cal. With a large chamber. That's it Just a suggestion with an encore ..40 build. I have spent close to 1 year on the phone with MGM and bullbery -in hurricane utah. I recently stopped at Bullberry yesterday to try and talk the owner into machining what I wanted. Bullberry has a unique hanger system that has past guarantees of 1/2 moa. Problem is the dovetails cut .100 into the barrel which causes a weak spot just ahead of the plug threads. And then holes are drilled .150 into the top where the base sits -another weak spot above and ahead of the plug. Here’s the math. .40 hole in a 1” barrel leaves .30” of metal. Take .100 off for the dovetails = .200 barrel Take .150 off for the mounts = .150 barrel Those are weak spots where pressure is at its peak. My criteria is a brux .40 cal barrel -nothing else will work. The other weld options for the scope base and bottom dovetails still wouldn’t work for my requirements. The bottom stock/foreman systems of what’s available from MGM are not accurate enough compared to Bullberrys hanger -JMO. The preferred barrel is an option from Jeff at Hankins but I’m done with anything except brux for a .40 or .45. Also : You would want a 9/16 plug if you were going to build a .40/.45 and you wouldn’t want a powder chamber as it would weaken anything ahead of the end of the plugs threads. And the .40 builds pressure faster than the .40. I really want an encore barreled .40 badly. After reasoning that I could shorten a muzzy close to 6” compared to a rifle action I had 2 possible build scenarios. Encore with a 29” barrel welded on the base and dovetails on the foreman. No chamber and keep speeds at 2700 fps with 275 grain bullets. Or Standard rifle action 23” barrel running a brux #6. This is 1.250” diameter for 5”. Run a 5/8 plug from jeff and a powder chamber of 70-80 grains. Faster powders might yield higher speeds or equal to 2700 fps. The thick chamber area of 1.250” doesn’t have anything drilled or dovetailed into it Safety is the last item - but needs to be the 1st actually. Both guns would weigh approx 9 lbs without scope. So I have decided to go with a centerfire action and it brings me much sadness because I really wanted a .40 encore. My suggestion if you want a .40 Talk to Jeff and see if he can build your .40 welded for attachments. I believe he will. Not sure you can get it in a brux barrel -call him. I have arrived at what I consider a really good all around hunting rig fluted #6 Brux @ 24” with titanium gill break mounted on a Mesa action Mesa or equal carbon fiber stock which is under 2 lbs BDL style bottom metal so it will have a storage compartment Trigger of choice, mine is trigger tech When properly bedded it weighs about 8 lbs 3 oz without rings or scope Handles well without being muzzle heavy Fires a 303 hc over 2900 very accurately without killer recoil Just a really nice all around package In the very near future I do plan to build a lighter .40 using a .700 action if I can find one, they are lighter than the Mesa Soon I will have my shop up and running and can get busy turning some stuff out The problem with a break action with a barrel longer than about 25” They get barrel heavy pretty quickly My Apex is a 28 and a break, it’s useable enough but doesn’t balance well during shoulder carry
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Post by yoderjac on Aug 6, 2023 18:51:47 GMT -5
Hello all. Very new to this forum and about to be very new to the SML world. Not new to muzzleloading though. My apologies if I’m using the wrong thread as I am just getting used to this message board. I just bought a new CVA scout and sent the barrel out to get last week. I am from upstate New York. The worst state ever for a gun owner. Lol. I am primarily a bow hunter, but when I do gun hunt it is the ML I like to take with me. I have a few questions if you all could help with please. I am having a very hard time finding large magnum rifle primers for my new build. Wondering if this is just another New York thing that I have to deal with? Second question. I know what scale I am going to buy but….What powder holders do you all recommend for the field as in hunting? I have always used pellets in my TC unfortunately. Third question and hopefully last, but I doubt it. Lol. How many shots do you all consider a new build to be broken in? 100ish? I too use the small vials. I think I got mine from Pittman as well. Even LRPs can be hard to find these days, but every now and then they pop up. Beware of the websites that pop up early in google and want payment using P2P and don't accept credit cards. I use a buttstock shell holder pouch to keep my vials and sized bullets for hunting. I use the same vials for bullets. By inverting every other bullet, the tops pass each other or they go butt to butt. I think I can get 4 bullets in a vial. I'm a hunter as well. The only variance I found was my own inconsistency in loading, cleaning, and seating bullets when I first started. Once I got the gun and my process dialed in, I've noticed no difference in shot placement as the gun has aged. I found I did need to figure out what process worked best for me. I've settled on this: 1) Before each season, I fire a few shots to foul the barrel. 2) After my last shot at the range (and after any shots during the season), I run one dry patch through the barrel. 3) When the season is done, I do a complete cleaning. This seems to give me the most consistency with my Hakins Encore SML. The process may be similar but somewhat different for other SMLs and load combinations. Best of luck, and welcome to your new addiction.
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Post by jeepeater on Aug 6, 2023 21:07:17 GMT -5
What is the exact weight of the Mesa muzzleloader action less pic rail ?? No place have i found this spoke of . Thank you !!! It seems that a Defiance An-ti is made out of un-obtainium these days..... Just under 2 lbs.
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Post by Sideshow on Aug 6, 2023 23:56:06 GMT -5
What is the exact weight of the Mesa muzzleloader action less pic rail ?? No place have i found this spoke of . Thank you !!! It seems that a Defiance An-ti is made out of un-obtainium these days..... Just under 2 lbs. Thanks Jeepeater . Thats less than my 40X single shot . . 38.4 oz - 31 oz = 7.4 oz . Almost a half pound Better , but not quite yet what im looking for . Thanks again .
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Post by Sideshow on Aug 14, 2023 20:24:56 GMT -5
Weatherby has introduced a new line called the 307 . They offer this 700 footprint action also for builds with a field stripable fluted bolt and M16 extraction , threaded as well as replaceable bolt handles are amongst its features . Made in Montana . Looks nice and worth consideration . Its also shown as in stock at Weatherby NOW . 1.062x16 same as Remington tennon threads . The short action only weighs 26.4 oz !!! MSRP is $750
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