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Post by fatfred on Apr 2, 2023 18:34:55 GMT -5
I finally shot my new CZ 457 American yesterday. I got the scope dialed in at 50 yds using 40 gr round nose CCI mini Mags. I shot:
CCI Quiet, CCI Segmented, CCI Stingers, CCI velocitors, CCI Minimag 36 HP's and 40 gr solids, CCI Standard velocity Rem Golden bullets and Yellow Jackets. Norma Aguila Subsonic, Aguila 60 GR Subsonic
Worst group was with the 60 gr SSS from Aguila. Tumbled. Best group (most consistent) was with CCI Minimag 36 HP. 10 shots in 1.06" and 9 in under 5/8" Most everything else were 5 shot groups. Nothing was great and nothing was terrible. Even the stingers and yellow jackets stayed just under 1".
For the heck of it, I shot a 100 yd 5 shot group with the 36 gr Minimag HP's and got a 1 5/8" cluster.
It was gusty here yesterday and I tried to shoot between the stiff winds. Maybe I can do better on a calmer day. The trigger right out of the box is excellent and the scope is very clear and crisp. Vortex Crossfire 6 x 18 with a nice simple crosshair with 3 extra hash marks left, right and below center.
I will say that it is a joy to shoot targets without getting the shot beat out of you like the ML's, shotguns, and powerful centerfires. Now it will be more range trips, compiling targets and data to see if any of the ammo I have shows long term consistency. One group with the Aguila's made a 1/4" ragged hole group for 4 rounds and one shot opened it up to 5/8". Then right after that it shot just an OK 3/4" group. So was it the ammo, the wind, or me??
Time will tell. Maybe I will try some expensive match ammo but for now I just want a bunch of trigger time with the pile of ammo I already have.
I had fun.
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CZ 457
Apr 2, 2023 21:06:06 GMT -5
Post by fatfred on Apr 2, 2023 21:06:06 GMT -5
What does anyone here do to condition and clean a .22 LR barrel? What is best practice? I came home and ran some wet patches using Hoppes #9 then I ran some dry patches. Then I ran some lightly damp rem oil sprayed patches. then a dry swabbing. Is this a good cleaning or do I have more to learn?
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CZ 457
Apr 2, 2023 22:10:43 GMT -5
Post by buckeye68 on Apr 2, 2023 22:10:43 GMT -5
What does anyone here do to condition and clean a .22 LR barrel? What is best practice? I came home and ran some wet patches using Hoppes #9 then I ran some dry patches. Then I ran some lightly damp rem oil sprayed patches. then a dry swabbing. Is this a good cleaning or do I have more to learn? I use Bor-Tec rim fire blend on all of my 22’s
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CZ 457
Jun 5, 2023 15:39:28 GMT -5
Post by Richard on Jun 5, 2023 15:39:28 GMT -5
Fatfred! Good to see you out shooting the .22. The last time I shot my ML was to test the small rifle modules for Hank. I have got so many shots down the barrel of the ML, I ran out of "stuff" to test! Plus, with the scarcity and price of powders (I'm good on primers), I have no need to do a whole lot of ML shooting..........Kind of a "been there, done that" sort of thing. The .22 on the other hand is a newer challenge for me plus some of my other benchrest rifles. I have been thru a lot of different ammo for the .22 and it does make a difference. A good solid rest and a decent trigger and scope are paramount for good groups. Chronograph the various ammo you test as Extreme Spreads are critical with .22 ammo! Particularly if you start taking it out to 100 yards and beyond. A few weeks ago I got a brick of SK Biathalon. It shot pretty good at 50 yards but I noticed the ES's were up near 30 fps. and those 50 yard groups were still in the .4 range however, when I took it to 100 yards, I could see the groups going up to 1" and above.....due to the ES. Then I switched to my Eley match which averages around 16 fps and my groups tightened up. With good wind conditions (I usually run two daisy wheel wind flags) the Eley with usually run close to 1/2" for five shot and under 1" for ten shot groups at 100. I managed some ten shot groups at 200 yards last week (under almost perfect wind conditions at 6:45 a.m. that were in the 2" range. The cheaper ammo is OK for shooting steel targets at 50 yards but when it comes to "benchrest" type paper groups, you have to spend the money on good ammo. My CZ 457 with the lilja barrel and Weaver 36X fine crosshair/dot scope likes Eley match. I have several different lots. Some shoot a little better than others but all still better than any of the SK, CCI or various other cheaper ammo. So basically, I switched from buying the high priced Pittman bullets to buying the higher priced Eley ammo. The thing is, once you see the difference in quality bullet and quality .22 ammo, you get spoiled. For me, I am always looking for the bug holes....the smaller the better!
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Post by mike on Jun 8, 2023 9:54:12 GMT -5
What does anyone here do to condition and clean a .22 LR barrel? What is best practice? I came home and ran some wet patches using Hoppes #9 then I ran some dry patches. Then I ran some lightly damp rem oil sprayed patches. then a dry swabbing. Is this a good cleaning or do I have more to learn? Use your eyes, at the end of your process, are your patches clean coming out the muzzle? If you don't shoot any copper plated ammo all you have to be concerned with is lead and powder fouling. Dozens of videos on YouTube posted by guys instructing how to clean their rimfire barrels, lots of process variations. Most swab with solvent patch to push out most loose debris, then push a solvent soaked brush for ten passes or so then push dry patches until they come out clean. If you get your barrel packed after a large number of rounds shot, you may have to brush a second time to scrub out the most stubborn lead. Bottom line is your gun's barrel is unique and you will know when it is clean by looking at your used patches. Common knowledge these days is to use plastic bristle brushes since it's been learned that the old fashioned brass brushes contribute to erosion of the chamber throat and to a lesser degree, the arise of the muzzle crown. More important with centerfire barrels because of the much higher and prolonged heat cycle effect on the metallurgy of the chamber throat metal.
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CZ 457
Jun 8, 2023 10:19:47 GMT -5
Post by mike on Jun 8, 2023 10:19:47 GMT -5
And as Richard opined, I agree completely, specific to .22lr, it's all about the ammo quality. Shooting cheap low quality ammo out of a $8,000 tricked out Vudoo will achieve accuracy on par with what a $300 Walmart gun will shoot (generally speaking). The higher the quality of ammo, the more consistent the rounds will perform and thus the more consistent the gun's barrel accuracy will be. Never in my life did I think I would be spending $19 to $25 for a box of 50 .22lr rounds! All serious .22lr competitors (I am not) send their barreled actions to either the Eley or Lapua technical centers to be ammo-lot tested. For, I believe, $50, one can ship or hand deliver their barreled action and they will shoot a bunch of rounds from a number (10 or 12) of ammo lots (different fps). Once all the data is digested they will allow the customer to purchase a case of 5,000 of the best shooting lot number. I believe Mark-buckeye68 takes advantage of Lapua's Ohio lot-testing service. It is shocking to compare the results of high quality-controlled ammo to cheap stuff. With good ammo, occasionally, there are still those unexplained fliers, but not nearly as many and the magnitude of dispersion is not nearly as great.
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Post by Richard on Jun 22, 2023 13:31:39 GMT -5
Extreme spread (ES) is also critical once you get beyond 50 yards. I just bought two bricks of Eley match with a listed velocity of 1062 fps. I still had an older lot of Eley match with a velocity of 1062 also. This lot shoots pretty good from my CZ hence the purchase of a couple of more bricks with the same listed velocity..............But wait!!! The velocity and ES from the new lot is different from the old lot. Although accuracy was almost identical (.006") smaller with the new lot. With the old lot I shot eight five shot groups. Average size was .334" (light breeze on and off and only one wind flag). The average velocity on my LabRadar was 1091 fps with a 15.3 ES. With the new lot, I shot a whole box...10 five shot groups. Average velocity was 1106 fps with a 18.8 ES and the ten shot group average was .328" This is why lot testing can be critical to accuracy and repeatability. I would venture to say that had I shot both lots of ammo at 100 yards, my accuracy difference would have been much larger----based on the increased ES of the new lot. Mark is lucky he lives only7 miles from the Lapua test center!!! The best way to test if to buy from an outfit like Killough's in Texas. They list the lots they have in stock and how many boxes (yes, 50 round boxes) they have in stock. I like to go to a lot they have a large quantity in stock....Like maybe 150 to 200 boxes. I then may buy one or two boxes of several different lots and velocities. They ship out immediately. When you get the ammo, get to the range ASAP and test under good conditions. When you find the lot that shoots the best, get on the internet and order as much of that lot as you can afford or need.
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