cody
New Member
Posts: 5 
|
Post by cody on Dec 30, 2016 21:02:16 GMT -5
I need some help I am building a smokeless muzzleloaders it is a Savage small shank 45cal 1.18 twist .450\458 I wood like to know what pressures and loads it will stand.safely
|
|
|
|
Post by dannoboone on Dec 31, 2016 1:49:15 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by elkman1310 on Dec 31, 2016 9:21:48 GMT -5
Why are you going to use a small shank barrel? Are going to buy one that is already threaded? If your buying a blank don't start off bad by using a small shank barrel and barrel nut it simply is not the right way to go. I only built one using the small shank and nut the gun did shoot good. This barrel also used a stock Savage breech plug and vent liner. I held my loads to 70grs of IMR 4198 and 250gr bullet. the 300gr 65grs. You don't have enough metal for a good margin of safety with these small shank barrels.
|
|
cody
New Member
Posts: 5
|
Post by cody on Dec 31, 2016 10:34:49 GMT -5
Yes order a pre fit barrel with a Savage breach plug. Quick and cheap and I have a old 110 in 30-06. And I ordered it be for I did a lot of research. I hope it will shot beader then my black power gun. Thanks for the in put on load data.
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Dec 31, 2016 10:52:20 GMT -5
What you have will work just fine and will be accurate.........just don't try to duplicate loads that others are shooting from barrels that are 2.125 or 2.250 in diameter over the chamber area. Stay within the parameters Elkman layed out. You don't need a whole bunch of FPS to shoot accurately. What you do need is a good rest, good scope, properly bedded action, decent trigger and the ability to make the trigger break with disturbing the sight picture.
Welcome to the board
|
|
|
|
Post by kbrezlin on Dec 31, 2016 11:01:01 GMT -5
If your using the nut on a small shank barrel the shank will be thinner and some loads may not be as safe as the full diameter shank. Nutless the nose of the plug is out past the recoil lug and into the "meat" of the shank. I'm not an expert but I believe the reason the Savage factory plug was so long was for this, to clear the end of the nut and put the snout of the plug in the shank.
I have 2 CF conversions, both nutless with a 1.25 for 5 inch shank straight to a 1 inch muzzle diameter at 28 inches. One is a Savage PTA and the other is a small shank 110 action that was a 243 Win.
Cody, I have 2 10MLII's that are both large shanks. One converted to 45 the other a stock 50. I can tell you that I was so impressed how my much better my 45 conversion shot with an after market barrel the 50 is getting converted after season is over. They both still use the nut. One is set up for my boy to shoot sabots and very low recoil starting next year. The other will be for me because I don't feel like lugging my CF conversions around at home. Big barrels and heavy for high velocity loads with heavier bullets. I will likely shoot sabots or very light sabotless loads because I don't shoot past 150 yards here at home.
I will also tell you the biggest problem I had converting my 110 CF was getting the old barrel off, but a vise and pipe wrench took care of that!
What were you planning on shooting, sabots or sabotless?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 11:43:14 GMT -5
I've asked a lot of questions regarding a new build lately as well. I already have a Remington 700ml with a 45 McGowan barrel that shoots great with everything I tried just takes some tweaking to get it there. There is a lot of good info and a lot of good builders out there. They all have great points and valid points for every situation. What it comes down to is what are your plans with your new build, hunting, target, long range shooting, hot rod loads, or anything else that comes to mind.
I'm a hunter, I do love to shoot, but don't care for hot rod loads. I wanted to build a gun myself and felt the savage conversion with the barrel nut would be easiest and best place for me to learn. I don't plan on TRex loads I plan on comfortable hunting loads and this is why I decided on the build I went with.
Just know your limitations and you'll be fine.
Elkman, Hillbill, Jeff, Richard, and any of the other builders have great suggestions and very valid points. Learn from their suggestions then make a solid decision. Good luck
|
|
cody
New Member
Posts: 5
|
Post by cody on Dec 31, 2016 12:25:25 GMT -5
I'm just looking for a good load for whitetail deer out to 200 yards without the mass of a black power muzzleloader the barrel I ordered is a Mcgowen 1.18 twist 28"
|
|
|
|
Post by jims on Dec 31, 2016 12:32:19 GMT -5
For what you ask a small shank will work quite well.
|
|
|
|
Post by 12ptdroptine on Dec 31, 2016 12:47:41 GMT -5
Cody
you have come to the right board for no "DRAMA TRAUMA" ......lol listen to the seasoned members here. They will help you get where you want to be a with a lot less frustration. I highly recommend you start off sabotless if at all possible. It took me 3years before I went sabotless. But that time was also in the infancy of sabotless development . I also think you will be surprised how easily you will achieve the 200yd performance you mentioned. Richard has a whole data-base of loads in that setup range. However each gun and shooter are different. But that just boils down to tweaking each.
Shoot Safely
and Good Luck
Drop
|
|
|
|
Post by dennis on Dec 31, 2016 14:04:15 GMT -5
Yes order a pre fit barrel with a Savage breach plug. Quick and cheap and I have a old 110 in 30-06. And I ordered it be for I did a lot of research. I hope it will shot beader then my black power gun. Thanks for the in put on load data. When I changed my barrel I put the barreled action in the freezer for a couple of hours then clamped the action in a vice with notched blocks heated the barrel nut with a propane torch for a couple seconds and it came loose very easy with a barrel nut wrench. |
|
cody
New Member
Posts: 5
|
Post by cody on Dec 31, 2016 15:57:35 GMT -5
I will take all input that I can get this is new to me and these boys know what their doing.
|
|
|
|
Post by doulos on Jan 1, 2017 9:37:24 GMT -5
This might be a dumb question but here goes. A Savage in small or large shank are the same action arent they?
|
|
|
|
Post by sa1000 on Jan 1, 2017 9:53:41 GMT -5
No,two different diameter shanks that thread in the action.
|
|
|
|
Post by kbrezlin on Jan 1, 2017 10:35:24 GMT -5
A little off topic but here is info from SharpShootersSupply on barrel shank diameter:
Barrel Shanks
In 2002 Savage offered rifles in the Winchester Short Magnum (WSM) and Remington Ultra Magnum (RUM) calibers. When these were finally in the catalog, there was a change made to the barrel shank diameter. Standard barrel shank diameter on standard calibers are 1.055" x 20tpi. On the new WSM, RUM, and SAUM calibers it is 1.120" x 20tpi. The barrel nut is also bigger in internal size, but is the same outer diameter and our barrel nut wrench will still fit. Savage also used this size of shank on the first version of the Model 10ML muzzleloader.
However, there were a few WSM and RUM rifles made on the standard barrel shank in the first production run. The best way to tell is to measure the barrel shank right against the nut. The larger barrel shank will have a step down approximately 1/8" ahead of the barrel nut. If your rifle has a serial number with a "G" prefix, it is most probable it will have the larger shank.
If you measure right in front of the nut with a set of calipers you can tell pretty easy. Both mine measured at about 1.117"
|
|
|
|
Post by jims on Jan 1, 2017 10:35:28 GMT -5
They are both a type of Savage short action but they have a different barrel nut. I think the small shank uses a barrel of about 1.06 inches at the breech versus about 1.12 on the large shank. This is from memory and might be not quite right. If you set the two different barrel nuts beside each other you would see a bit of a design difference more than the size difference.
Now this is what I have found on my Savage MLIIs. I do not know how it is on the centerfire Savages.
|
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 1, 2017 12:50:34 GMT -5
I'm just looking for a good load for whitetail deer out to 200 yards without the mass of a black power muzzleloader the barrel I ordered is a Mcgowen 1.18 twist 28" 200 yards is a chip shot for a 45cal SML. Since you got a 1-18 you might want to try a heavier bullet although a 275gr might be just fine too. Parkers might fit in the Mcgowen without any sizing. If it was me i would try a 300gr BE and about 65gr of H4198 for a start. That would be more than enough for a very potent 200 yard load. That load should still be under 42Kpsi   |
|
cody
New Member
Posts: 5
|
Post by cody on Jan 1, 2017 13:26:55 GMT -5
Thanks I like thim charts and I'm going to shoot 300BE bullets. I wood never believe that will get that much fps and I will be smooth sizeing. I believe this gun is going be a lot of fun.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 14:02:14 GMT -5
Not sure why the pressure traces you posted show lower pressure but I wouldn't shoot 300 grain bullets with 70/H4198.   I'd look at some traces with 3031 and 275 bullets.  |
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 1, 2017 14:23:25 GMT -5
Thanks I like thim charts and I'm going to shoot 300BE bullets. I wood never believe that will get that much fps and I will be smooth sizeing. I believe this gun is going be a lot of fun. One thing kinda nice about the faster twist, you dont need as much muzzle velocity to stabilize the bullet. The Parkers also dont need a hard kick in the pants to obturate....Soooo,,,,,,In theory you could easily drop down to the 58gr range no problem and still have a 300gr bullet leaving the muzzle well over 2200fps....That is still plenty for 200 yards and the BEs expand very easily. You could also try sabots if you wish with a 200gr bullet and get the peak pressure much lower. That new CEB 240gr 40cal made for sabots might be right up your alley. IIRC one of the guys was also shooting the PR Dead Center 40cal 240gr with kinda mild loads. He was very happy with the performance on deer. |
|
