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Post by rick59 on Jan 4, 2017 8:34:23 GMT -5
Now I see why I'm catching all the crap about my small shank rifle. Hundreds of them were built and now all the sudden they're unsafe to shoot.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 9:11:29 GMT -5
Now I see why I'm catching all the crap about my small shank rifle. Hundreds of them were built and now all the sudden they're unsafe to shoot. I don't think that's a true statement you just can't shoot the hot rod loads a lot of the members want to go. Not to mention shooting 3031 will generate lower pressures which will help in safety. For hunting purposes a small shank savage is all anyone would need, but that's just my opinion.
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Post by rick59 on Jan 4, 2017 10:30:38 GMT -5
Now I see why I'm catching all the crap about my small shank rifle. Hundreds of them were built and now all the sudden they're unsafe to shoot. I don't think that's a true statement you just can't shoot the hot rod loads a lot of the members want to go. Not to mention shooting 3031 will generate lower pressures which will help in safety. For hunting purposes a small shank savage is all anyone would need, but that's just my opinion. That's exacting right but OH NO the experts have said they're bad / they'll blow up so you should stay away, that's what I being told.
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Post by claydawg on Jan 4, 2017 10:50:55 GMT -5
You are being misinformed. The small shank will do everything a hunter needs, but the margin for human error goes down. Double load a small shank with 300 grain bullets and 70 plus grains of 4198 and your barrel will rupture, where a large shank would probably bulge. Key to avoiding this lesson is be safe and meticulous in your loading process (witness mark). I have 2 small shanks and 1 large and there is a difference. Be thorough in your loading procedure and your small shank gun is more than adequate.
I've shot some heavy loads (working up and looking for pressure signs) from my small shank without issue. I use Brux and Krieger barrels exclusively and they have not failed due to pressure yet. There are more small shanks than large out there based on production numbers I've seen. Be safe and enjoy the advantages of SML.
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Post by rick59 on Jan 4, 2017 11:04:35 GMT -5
You are being misinformed. The small shank will do everything a hunter needs, but the margin for human error goes down. Double load a small shank with 300 grain bullets and 70 plus grains of 4198 and your barrel will rupture, where a large shank would probably bulge. Key to avoiding this lesson is be safe and meticulous in your loading process (witness mark). I have 2 small shanks and 1 large and there is a difference. Be thorough in your loading procedure and your small shank gun is more than adequate. I've shot some heavy loads (working up and looking for pressure signs) from my small shank without issue. I use Brux and Krieger barrels exclusively and they have not failed due to pressure yet. There are more small shanks than large out there based on production numbers I've seen. Be safe and enjoy the advantages of SML. You don't have to try to convince me, I've own way to many of these rifles in the past. I post one for sale and the sky falls down because others are being misinformed.
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Post by elkman1310 on Jan 4, 2017 11:05:20 GMT -5
What were trying to tell people is you don't have as much steel in the barrel shank where the most pressure is generated. There are some builders that won't even use a Remington Sendero Taper. I have used some on Remington M/L actions which eat up about 1.800 of the first two inches of the barrel but that is also encased inside the action. I think the Sendero taper works really well for a new barrel on a Savage as long as you don't use the barrel nut.
That said I am not in the camp that you need a minimum of 5" of steel ahead of the recoil lug to be safe either. I like to build guns that weigh under 12lbs with a barrel that is no longer than 26" ahead of the recoil lug. These rifles carry well and handle quick enough for most hunting purposes. If you hunt from a dedicated hunting place and shoot off a portable rifle rest like I do in Virginia weight is not a problem.
The heavy powder charges I use and post on this board are only for guns that I build. There are no two guns that work exactly the same so you need to work up to any load posted by anyone with caution. And if you have a small shank barrel or a break action barrel don't try to make it into something it is not. These guns where made to be light and fast handling they simply don't have the strength to shoot heavy charges like we do out of bolt action gun.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 15:21:38 GMT -5
Not sure why the pressure traces you posted show lower pressure but I wouldn't shoot 300 grain bullets with 70/H4198. I'd look at some traces with 3031 and 275 bullets. The reason for the discrepancy is that TG replaced his strain Guage in 2013 after the first trace and calibrated possibly to a different load. I havebeen reviewing his traces and saw this some time back. This is something that I have to account for in the pressure tracing I have begun. I will make it a point to retrace that load. QL seems to be very accurate so we may consult it too.
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Post by jims on Jan 4, 2017 18:12:16 GMT -5
I would have thought there were more small shanks than large shanks made and for their designed purposes they work quite well. I have a number of them and am not fearful of them in any way with standard loads.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 18:36:26 GMT -5
I would have thought there were more small shanks than large shanks made and for their designed purposes they work quite well. I have a number of them and am not fearful of them in any way with standard loads. Agreed. I have always had small shanks too The bottom line is that a nutless small shank Savage is equal in strength to a 700. The threaded tenon of a small Savage and a 700 are less than ten thousandths difference in diameter. That is a sheet of notebook paper. A large shank Savage threaded tenon is larger than a 700 tenon by a fair amount, making a nutless large shank Savage the strongest of all. To each his own but IMO, one is no better than the other as long as they are castrated. Furthermore, they will all handle 50kpsi plus all day long. Double loading is usually the end of them. Please be diligent when at the range, etc. Don't get distracted. Mark your rod. They ALL can blow up.That is why Jeff built Cyclops.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 18:44:16 GMT -5
I would have thought there were more small shanks than large shanks made and for their designed purposes they work quite well. I have a number of them and am not fearful of them in any way with standard loads. Agreed. I have always had small shanks too The bottom line is that a nutless small shank Savage is equal in strength to a 700. The threaded tenon of a small Savage and a 700 are less than ten thousandths difference in diameter. That is a sheet of notebook paper. A large shank Savage threaded tenon is larger than a 700 tenon by a fair amount, making a nutless large shank Savage the strongest of all. To each his own but IMO, one is no better than the other as long as they are castrated. Furthermore, they will all handle 50kpsi plus all day long. Double loading is usually the end of them. Please be diligent when at the range, etc. Don't get distracted. Mark your rod. They ALL can blow up.That is why Jeff built Cyclops. castrated?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 18:56:00 GMT -5
Nutless
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Post by codyquillen82 on Jan 4, 2017 18:57:33 GMT -5
3031 would be a safer powder in a Savage small shank? And what wood be a good load to start out with using 275be and 250 bullets
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Post by deadeye on Jan 4, 2017 19:12:31 GMT -5
Furthermore, they will all handle 50kpsi plus all day long. Double loading is usually the end of them. Please be diligent when at the range, etc. Don't get distracted. Mark your rod. They ALL can blow up.That is why Jeff built Cyclops.
do you all think Cyclops will be a little brother to a bigger brother down the road?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 19:31:42 GMT -5
3031 would be a safer powder in a Savage small shank? And what wood be a good load to start out with using 275be and 250 bullets 100gr
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 20:20:38 GMT -5
3031 would be a safer powder in a Savage small shank? And what wood be a good load to start out with using 275be and 250 bullets Depending on what velocity you want I'd start around 90gr and work up.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 20:24:00 GMT -5
For me my goal is to start with 4198 and the 275 grain bullet. I'd like to run them around 2700-2800 for hunting purposes. I don't want to go over 42-43k pressure wise no need to in my opinion.
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Post by doug136 on Jan 4, 2017 20:53:13 GMT -5
Furthermore, they will all handle 50kpsi plus all day long. Double loading is usually the end of them. Please be diligent when at the range, etc. Don't get distracted. Mark your rod. They ALL can blow up.That is why Jeff built Cyclops.
do you all think Cyclops will be a little brother to a bigger brother down the road?
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Post by doug136 on Jan 4, 2017 20:53:33 GMT -5
Good chance ! Lol
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Post by codyquillen82 on Jan 4, 2017 21:32:41 GMT -5
This gun is going to be built for hunting purposes out to 200 yards I think with those velocities and those loads it will not be a problem. And thanks for the load data this has been a big help.
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Post by codyquillen82 on Jan 11, 2017 17:13:59 GMT -5
How does the 195 grain barns perform in the smokeless muzzleloaders look like they would shoot very flat
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