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Scope?
Dec 9, 2017 10:42:51 GMT -5
Post by tnhunter on Dec 9, 2017 10:42:51 GMT -5
What are you guys currently running on your guns? I got a good deal on a vortex viper HS 6-24x50 the other day from Cabela’s. I’ve looked threw it allot and it’s very clear. I’ve read allot about Leupold vx3 being a better scope. Didn’t want to take the time and waist the bullets and powder if you guys don’t think this will hold up on my smokeless gun.
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Scope?
Dec 9, 2017 10:52:04 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 10:52:04 GMT -5
As Hillbill has mentioned break action guns tend to be less forgiving so first, what gun are you are you using?
I haven't had a scope fail on my smokeless muzzleloader yet but I had a problem when I mounted one that I over tightened.
I currently have a Vortex Viper 2.5-10x44 with BDC Reticle that hasn't had any issues other than mounting issues.
I shoot stout loads but on the lower end. If your shooting stout loads on higher end I believe it would be when it fails not if it fails.
I really like vortex scopes but they are what I can afford if I could afford more than $400-$500 on a scope my opinion could change.
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Scope?
Dec 9, 2017 11:18:00 GMT -5
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Dec 9, 2017 11:18:00 GMT -5
This can be quite a topic anymore. So.e say its not the scope that fails its more the way we mount them. I am afraid to stray from what has worked for myself. Which is Night force NSX line. Nightforce base JB welded to the action. 4 screw Nightforce ultralight rings. This is the exact setup on two heavy gus ...about 17lbs. Load has been up to 76 gn of H4198 and a 300 gn bullet.3 seasons.on 1 and starting the second on another. BUT...future builds will include the 6 screw rings just for added security. I always fear that if I "experiment" and spent half the price the Nightforce that I will wish I hadn't of . Just continue saving each time.for I know what works for me. I guess that I'm just too pessimistic. Drop
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Scope?
Dec 9, 2017 11:25:29 GMT -5
Post by nippernut on Dec 9, 2017 11:25:29 GMT -5
my scope rail on my stiller action little boy muzzleloader is pinned, so I don't see where it could "slip n slide"
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Scope?
Dec 9, 2017 12:44:30 GMT -5
Post by dannoboone on Dec 9, 2017 12:44:30 GMT -5
What are you guys currently running on your guns? I got a good deal on a vortex viper HS 6-24x50 the other day from Cabela’s. I’ve looked threw it allot and it’s very clear. I’ve read allot about Leupold vx3 being a better scope. Didn’t want to take the time and waist the bullets and powder if you guys don’t think this will hold up on my smokeless gun. I have that same model scope on the converted 10MLII and love it. My loads are limited to 275gr bullets @ 2800fps, so recoil is on the moderate side. So far (after three years) it has held up perfectly. I do not believe it is an overstatement to say that ring alignment is everything. If rings are out of alignment and bind the scope tube bad enough when tightened down, any scope can fail due to that bind alone. This is the area about which I am the most anal! All my rifles get the scope base bedded and while doing so, a straight edge is used to ensure the base remains perfectly straight. P.S. My converted 700ML has a lowly Bushy 3200 which has also been on 2 or 3 CF's, and it's still going strong. Now on a RF, a Bushy Banner was on an Encore 209x50 for several years, and held up well. Both scopes above were mounted with as perfect alignment as I could muster. This is not to say they will never crash & burn, but I sincerely believe their life expectancy have been extended.  |
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Scope?
Dec 9, 2017 14:07:13 GMT -5
Post by jims on Dec 9, 2017 14:07:13 GMT -5
I have been pleased with the price and quality for the money of the Weaver Classic Extremes. See Natchez, big scopes however
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Scope?
Dec 9, 2017 15:31:32 GMT -5
Post by 10gaauto on Dec 9, 2017 15:31:32 GMT -5
Whatever way you go be sure it has a great warranty and service. I've had over 11 SML and have failed several scopes. Personally I favor Weaver. My opinion, others will differ. 10
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Scope?
Dec 9, 2017 15:36:59 GMT -5
Post by dunthat on Dec 9, 2017 15:36:59 GMT -5
I've had two of the Vipers you have on past SML's...They both held up well and did the job I needed. Both went with the rifles when I sold them and are still working well with new owners. I now have two 2.5x10 Vipers on my new builds. So far they're working just as I hoped... Plenty of scope for hunting purposes.
Zen
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Scope?
Dec 9, 2017 16:12:59 GMT -5
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Post by sa1000 on Dec 9, 2017 16:12:59 GMT -5
I used a Vortex Hs 4x16x44 for a while on mine.It did a good job.I dailed it a up and down quit a bit shooting mine at different ranges.But I put my NXS last year and an will leave it on it.
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Scope?
Dec 9, 2017 17:49:20 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 17:49:20 GMT -5
I completely agree with the mounting process has a lot to do with if a scope doesn't fail or not. Lapping rings, bedding the scope base, and correct ring screw torque down. I've had issues south scope moving in rings and base screws coming loose. Currently the screws are staying tight now but I used jb weld underneath the scope base now and that seems to be holding. I ran a Nikon Prostaff 5 4.5-14x40 XR Custom Dial scope and I've never had an issue with it on my SML as well. With all that said what ever Hillbill says I would believe that a lot more than some rookie smokeless shooter like me.  |
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Scope?
Dec 9, 2017 20:32:13 GMT -5
Post by tnhunter on Dec 9, 2017 20:32:13 GMT -5
I’ve got a Remington 700ml with McGowen barrel. I started with a Leupold vx3 4-14x40 but wanted more power so I thought this scope would fit the bill. I started shooting the 275 match hunter with 68 grains of H4198 but have moved to the BE 275 with 65 grains of H4198. Ive got a Murphy rail bedded to my action. I think I’ll give the viper a try. I’ve never lapped my rings but may give it a try. I’ve got a wheeler torque wrench that I use on my rings.
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Scope?
Dec 9, 2017 22:36:05 GMT -5
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Post by smokelessk on Dec 9, 2017 22:36:05 GMT -5
My Rem/Hankins/Brux wears a Leupold VXII 4-12 AO scope in Leupold PWR's on a Nightforce base. It's my original smokeless muzzleloader scope. Bought it new in the fall of 08 when I bought my Savage. It rode on that gun through every bit of 700 rounds. Now it's on my Hankins rifle. 96 rounds through the Hankins rifle and the VXII is still holding on. I think it cost me like $380 in 2008. I like it because it's not a heavy scope. I think about 7 ounces lighter than the Vortex Viper 4-12 SF that I tried on the Savage briefly. And it had better eye relief than the Vortex. I liked the Vortex but it was getting old having my eyebrow split open because of the shorter eye relief. It had about 3/4" less eye relief than the VXII. Just enough that it got me bleeding more than once. Hence why the VXII is on my Hankins gun and not the Vortex. That and it's lighter.
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Post by hillbill on Dec 10, 2017 8:11:10 GMT -5
While the mounting process has a lot to do with the life span of a scope on these guns I will tell you that I take extreme pains mounting my scopes and I have likely killed more scopes on these beasts than anyone.
A short story:
recently my Sightron SIII was diagnosed by me as having an erector spring getting weak, here is how it went down.
I bought this scope 18 months ago or so and have been very pleased with it, it replaced a 4x24 VX-6 that was on my IKE gun that puked after about 200 or so rounds, while it was on that gun I shot probably 250 rounds of 325s @ 2850+ without an issue. that's some pretty stout recoil even with a brake.
when I built the Anesthesia .40 I removed the scope from IKE and installed on the .40, since that time I have fired well over 100 shots of 273-322 Hammers at some pretty high speeds, recoil at the same level as on IKE but in a lighter gun,(16 Lbs vs 12) and without issue until recently.
the gun regularly shot less than 1/2" moa and sometimes much less. recently it started shooting horizontal groups and I didn't think much about it because I was testing different loads. after going back to one of my bug-hole loads it would alternately shoot two different groups @100 about .750 apart perfectly horizontal and alternating holes every other shot (two separate bug-holes), I checked all the mounting screws and all was good. I pulled the scope and replaced it with my 2.5x17.5 S Tac and it's back to a bug-hole.
So my conclusion? A weak spring. I box up the scope and send it to Sightron along with a 4x20 S-Tac that had dust on the reticle with a detailed note of what was happening and my phone number. two weeks go by and after two emails and finally a phone call the lady says its on the bench about to go out today. A day later Alan answers my email with a picture of a group shot with their .308 test gun and said there was nothing wrong with the scope.
MY HEAD ABOUT EXPLODED! they didn't even take the scope apart to check it, needless to say I sent some to the point e mails back to Alan with no answer Friday to my last one. So, all that is still unresolved.
All that to get to my point: Yes mounting means a lot on these guns BUT RECOIL KILLS, believe me I know, I have killed more scopes than I care to admit. these high end loads are scope killers! a 12 lb gun launching a 297 grain bullet @ 3000 fps+ or a .322 @ 2850+ is mean on scopes. guys that don't kill scopes?
1. don't shoot high end loads
2. don't shoot much
3. have a very good scope
4. are lucky
For those that question my mounting?
Here is my process:
I ALWAYS use a good machined Picatinny rail bedded to the reciever with JB taking care not to flex it while bedding.
I ALWAYS use good rings, in the case above 6 screw NightForce.
I NEVER have ring marks which tells me nothing is out of alignment
all that to say I have never owned several brands that are reported to be a very tough scope but here are some I have killed and in some brands several
Leupold (several)
Zeiss Conquest (several)
NIkon
Zwaro
Cabelas Euro
Meopta
IOR ( early on on the old ML II, I think because of mounting issues)
Sightron (yet to be resolved)
Vortex
a good number of cheap stuff guys were set on using
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Scope?
Dec 10, 2017 9:00:31 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2017 9:00:31 GMT -5
guys that don't kill scopes? 1. don't shoot high end loads 2. don't shoot much 3. have a very good scope 4. are lucky I completely agree with Hillbill. 1.I can't handle high end loads so I like shooting around 2700-2800 fps with 275 grain bullets. 2.This year I didn't hardly shoot at all 3.I can't afford $1000+ scopes so I buy what I can afford and the vortex viper fits that bill. 4.I like being lucky. Would putting a break on a muzzleloader help with scope life? I know it reduces recoil so my guess would be it would help with scope life?? |
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Scope?
Dec 10, 2017 10:01:32 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2017 10:01:32 GMT -5
While the mounting process has a lot to do with the life span of a scope on these guns I will tell you that I take extreme pains mounting my scopes and I have likely killed more scopes on these beasts than anyone. A short story: recently my Sightron SIII was diagnosed by me as having an erector spring getting weak, here is how it went down. I bought this scope 18 months ago or so and have been very pleased with it, it replaced a 4x24 VX-6 that was on my IKE gun that puked after about 200 or so rounds, while it was on that gun I shot probably 250 rounds of 325s @ 2850+ without an issue. that's some pretty stout recoil even with a brake. when I built the Anesthesia .40 I removed the scope from IKE and installed on the .40, since that time I have fired well over 100 shots of 273-322 Hammers at some pretty high speeds, recoil at the same level as on IKE but in a lighter gun,(16 Lbs vs 12) and without issue until recently. the gun regularly shot less than 1/2" moa and sometimes much less. recently it started shooting horizontal groups and I didn't think much about it because I was testing different loads. after going back to one of my bug-hole loads it would alternately shoot two different groups @100 about .750 apart perfectly horizontal and alternating holes every other shot (two separate bug-holes), I checked all the mounting screws and all was good. I pulled the scope and replaced it with my 2.5x17.5 S Tac and it's back to a bug-hole. So my conclusion? A weak spring. I box up the scope and send it to Sightron along with a 4x20 S-Tac that had dust on the reticle with a detailed note of what was happening and my phone number. two weeks go by and after two emails and finally a phone call the lady says its on the bench about to go out today. A day later Alan answers my email with a picture of a group shot with their .308 test gun and said there was nothing wrong with the scope. MY HEAD ABOUT EXPLODED! they didn't even take the scope apart to check it, needless to say I sent some to the point e mails back to Alan with no answer Friday to my last one. So, all that is still unresolved. All that to get to my point: Yes mounting means a lot on these guns BUT RECOIL KILLS, believe me I know, I have killed more scopes than I care to admit. these high end loads are scope killers! a 12 lb gun launching a 297 grain bullet @ 3000 fps+ or a .322 @ 2850+ is mean on scopes. guys that don't kill scopes? 1. don't shoot high end loads 2. don't shoot much 3. have a very good scope 4. are lucky For those that question my mounting? Here is my process: I ALWAYS use a good machined Picatinny rail bedded to the reciever with JB taking care not to flex it while bedding. I ALWAYS use good rings, in the case above 6 screw NightForce. I NEVER have ring marks which tells me nothing is out of alignment all that to say I have never owned several brands that are reported to be a very tough scope but here are some I have killed and in some brands several Leupold (several) Zeiss Conquest (several) NIkon Zwaro Cabelas Euro Meopta IOR ( early on on the old ML II, I think because of mounting issues) Sightron (yet to be resolved) Vortex a good number of cheap stuff guys were set on using How is the scope holding up that you are testing ..? I cant remember the name of it but they are new on the block.... |
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Scope?
Dec 10, 2017 10:08:54 GMT -5
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Post by doug136 on Dec 10, 2017 10:08:54 GMT -5
The Sightron surprises me .I have a S111 10x50 that I'm positive has over 1500 shots. But the gun is shooting Heavy Blackhorn loads without a brake . To me the recoil feels about the same as my smokless guns with Brakes . I guess that's why everyone buys Nightforce ? You can NOT beat the durability of a Nightforce .
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Scope?
Dec 10, 2017 12:24:17 GMT -5
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Post by doug136 on Dec 10, 2017 12:24:17 GMT -5
Has anyone tried a Leupold vx6 HD . I personally like Leupolds for their clarity and light gathering ability at dusk . But they seem to struggle with high recoiling guns
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Scope?
Dec 10, 2017 12:37:59 GMT -5
Post by hillbill on Dec 10, 2017 12:37:59 GMT -5
The Tract Toric that Alan is referring to is on my Apex .40 and so far is holding zero well, the tracking sucks though. I just got my drops for the hold over marks and use it that way.
The SIII 8x32 I love but if I can't get my issues resolved I will move on to something else. the main reason for not buying a Nightforce is just hard hardheadedness I suppose, yes they are on the upper end of the spectrum but also very heavy, I would rather not have big birtha sitting on top of my guns as they serve double duty as target/hunting rigs BUT that might be what I have to do. the 8x32 is pretty big and hefty as well. some might wonder why I trash so many scopes? I wonder myself but rest assured it's not because of mounting issues.
In the meantime I will keep plugging away, this past year I have got to shoot more than I have in the past I guess mainly because of the .40 cal stuff but I will try to shoot even more next year since I now have a place where I can shoot 1000 yards, it's by invitation only so I'm not sure how often it will happen?
I have a SIG that I need to break or try to? I have shot it a little and it seems to be decent but I have no idea how well it will track, time will tell.
Doug
my last Leupold was a VX-6 but not the HD, I have broke way too many Leupold to ever trust them again.
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Dec 10, 2017 16:52:24 GMT -5
Post by Richard on Dec 10, 2017 16:52:24 GMT -5
I had the exact same experience with the same scope Hillbill referred to in his post..........the 8x32 Sightron. I had the EXACT same problem............First I sent it back for a fleck in the field of view. They fixed that and sent it back to me. When I got it back is when the horizontal shifting of a known bughole load occurred. I sent it back to Allen at Sightron and they did the exact same test as they did on Bill's scope. Shot it on their .308 and claimed there was NO problem?............BS! I have been around bench rest shooting too long and know when there is a scope problem. My take on it is as follows: They found a problem with the erector tube springs and fixed it! NOT wanting to take the blame for a faulty scope, they sent it back to me and said nothing was wrong!!!!! I put it back on and of course, everything was fine. That type of service just sucks! I love the scope and it works fine now but I have since started using the NF bench rest scopes with no problems.
On the other hand, I have a Leupold MK4 straight 16X that a few years back I had Leupold put in a mil-dot reticle. About a year later a fleck appeared but since it was off to the side, I never did anything with it. About a year ago more flecks starting appearing so I sent it back. Well, Leupold not only fixed the fleck problem but upon dissembling it they noticed some wear in the transfer bar that controls the side parallex adjust ment and they replaced that also?...........That is good service when they fix something that was not broke (just worn).
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Scope?
Dec 10, 2017 17:17:49 GMT -5
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Post by hillbill on Dec 10, 2017 17:17:49 GMT -5
The story is not over, I was going to call him but I was too mad, sent an email instead.
If I have to I will sell them all and move on, I'm not partial to any brand but customer service goes a long way, right now Sightron is on my short list.
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