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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2016 12:42:50 GMT -5
I know I read a thread where people talked about using shims to help seal the 209 primer and someone else talked about using marine Tex or an epoxy with a shim to help shim the primer for seal. I can't find that thread and I've talked to Richard about it and have a pretty good idea what I'll do to help make a seal with an epoxy.
Here's my question, I can find Winchester 209 primers locally very easy. I just recently found CCI mag primers after looking for many years. I have never found Fed primers and don't plan on buying online. So which primer is the most consistent? My thought was to use JB Weld mix a little metal shavings in it and try to make a pocket that completely fits the Winchester primer creating a better than normal seal. If I remember right jb Weld can with stand around 600° heat. And with the shelf or lip that the Winchester primer tends to have the epoxy would create a seal up to the lip or shelf.
Could someone please explain the process of using the epoxy again as well. Does my idea sound okay or could it have a flaw?
Thanks for any help.
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Post by elkman1310 on Apr 12, 2016 13:39:03 GMT -5
Its really a shame so many people are struggling with this problem. Yes you can do a patch job with shims and epoxy but that is not how a properly machined 209 ignition system should work. There are a few critical machining steps to get everything setup right to have the 209 primer seal properly with out it being overly tight. If its to tight you will wear out the bolt cam retention screw. Which is a draw back on any against that uses this system. I have got my bolt nose and breech plug system I make worked out to the point were it (chambers the primer) very easily and the cam screw holds up. This does require machining all parts in the proper order. I could have been a whole lot easier if good old Remington would have tried to hold their tolerances within a few thousands. That simply didn't seem to be a priority with these M/L actions. Every one really comes down to a hand fit on the final assembly.
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Post by Richard on Apr 12, 2016 19:32:52 GMT -5
Chad.........I would get the shim pack from Luke and try that first. If that does not work put the epoxy (JB) under the shim..........put a release agent on the primer you intend to use (The Winchesters are about .004" longer than the CCI Mags) (paste shoe polish works well) and seat it against the shim with the epoxy underneath. This way the primer will always be seated against the steel shim rather than the softer epoxy.
I like the Winchesters but they are not as hot as the CCI or Federals. As long as you are duplexing, I would not worry about the extra fire from the mag primers as the Winchesters will light it up.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2016 22:29:51 GMT -5
I would stick with the Winchesters and go to a .035 or .040 bushing. The Winchesters seal better and the larger bushing will allow more heat in, negating the reason for F209A's.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2016 22:44:00 GMT -5
I know you have been using CCI primers lately however if you had a better seal with the Winchester's could you achieve better ignition with the single power loads, Richard?
I bought some shims here a week or so ago and while I was chasing my kids around in the house I thought I'd try to get one in my breech plug and see what kind of fit I had. Didn't think about powder or primer build up and didn't clean the primer pocket. I couldn't get the bolt to battery with any primer in. Once I learned my error I cleaned the pocket and have not had a chance to go back and add the shim into the pocket again. I will start there.
I still would like to try to make a seal with jb Weld but not sure it will work or stay attached to primer pocket, don't think it will bound well to steel???
Thanks for the info guys!!
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Post by keith on Apr 13, 2016 6:04:04 GMT -5
I maintain that Federal primers have the most consistent dimensions. I know they are not as round as a Winchester but who cares when you are achieving a slight crush at the primer nose or in your case a 100% mould at the nose. So with a mold you still need consistency of primer dimensions so I want the Federal which is also the hottest. To me there is no reason not to buy them. Ask your local dealer to order them or buy your next shipment of powder and primers online, distribute the HAZMAT and it'll be the same or less than what you pay locally.
As for your epoxy plan, try it. If it doesn't work out, drill it out and try something else or get a plug made and take it to a dude with a lathe and bore it to fit your primers. That's what I did. I think I have one blank left if you need it.
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Post by linebaugh on Apr 13, 2016 6:20:32 GMT -5
There are several other 209s out there and I never here boo about anybody trying them.
Fiocchi, rio, cheddite to neame a few. Wolf may make them now??
At any rate I have read on the trap forums that some of the odd balls have a bit larger dimensions. Some of those may be hot as well. I know fiocchi rounds tend to be pretty stout.
Just a thought.
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Post by schunter on Apr 13, 2016 6:51:23 GMT -5
I have 100 Rio's that I bought a couple years ago for a Knight but they would not even go in the bare primer breech plug due to the diameter. Will give them a try in my sml and see if they will fit. Don't think they will though... Might be an option for someone who has made there diameter to large for whatever reason.
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Post by keith on Apr 13, 2016 7:35:58 GMT -5
Fiocchi are pretty hot. I use their primed hulls to load 738gn full bore solids over RL17 on the rare occasions I shoot a slug gun.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Apr 13, 2016 11:33:11 GMT -5
Fiocchi and some other Euro primers have very little to no taper. The nose OD on some is around .242 which is much larger than the Wins.  |
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Post by Richard on Apr 13, 2016 11:58:17 GMT -5
Chad..........I got/get a good seal with the Winchester but believe the flame is not hot enough for loose fitting bullets with single powder loads? But as I said, so what is wrong with a duplex?  ? Duplex's have worked as well as any singles I have shot. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 12:23:00 GMT -5
Chad..........I got/get a good seal with the Winchester but believe the flame is not hot enough for loose fitting bullets with single powder loads? But as I said, so what is wrong with a duplex? ? Duplex's have worked as well as any singles I have shot. Your right, I don't plan on going away from duplex that's for sure. My goal is just better seal and hopefully eliminate sticky primers. I believe the shims will fix that issue. I'm just trying to think outside the box a little.  |
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