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Post by Richard on Apr 11, 2016 19:27:02 GMT -5
Nothing much in the way of group shooting today just trying to figure some stuff out! One of which is getting my settings for 100, 200 and 300 yards for the “You know what!” Another is a leaky primer problem with the Rem/Shilen. Not from alongside the cup, but between the cup and the actual primer. Too much of this and it will gas cut the bolt face as has happened with the old Savage breech plugs. I have the bottom of the plug shimmed so it is making firm contact and nothing is leaking there. Primers come out clean as a whistle except for some darkening around the primer and cup. These are with CCI 209 mag. primers. Federals and Winchesters will no longer close as the are longer than the CCI’s. Anyway, working with the Brux .45 I started out fouling the barrel with a 12/50 Clays/H-4198 duplex and a 250 gr. XTP ---- All loads shot today had no wads with them! These were shot at the bottom of the target using that small round circle. After those three shots, I loaded a 300 BE with the 5/66 duplex and nailed the circle. Now to the “meat and potatoes!” 300 gr. AccuMax with the 5/66 duplex. (Up to the top of the picture) At 100 yards just about nailed my POA (left side of circle) So 100 is pretty good. Moving out to 200 I added 1 ¾ MOA (to the 100 yard zero) and shot about one inch high so that setting will be reduced to 1 ½ MOA. Now out to 300 I used a previous 3 ½ MOA setting (again, from 100 yard zero) and came up 1 ¾” low and a little left. I moved the windage a bit to the right and upped the elevation to 3 ¾ MOA and fired a fourth shot which was ½” + and ½” right. Pretty close but I am going to come down to 3 5/8 MOA and call it good. This load was shot with Federal 209A primers and averaged 2761 fps with 17 fps ES. Now the Shilen with the leaky primers…………… I fouled the barrel with wo 300 gr. XTP’s and the 12/58 duplex using the cross hairs and the bottom of the bull (6:00) for my POA. A member was asking abut velocity yesterday with the 225 FTX and 78 gr. of I-4198 so I shot three at 100 yards for a .740” group (same POA) pretty high but then the average velocity was 3045 with a low 9 fps ES and a .740” group. For target #5 at 200 yards I still used crosshairs as I was already some 4” + at 100. If you follow on the info sheet you will see the shot placement for various powder charges. Most every one of the seven shots are different. I was trying to see if it affected the leaky primer thing. Only one out of the seven shots produced a primer with no leakage. So, no group here and no av. velocity Going to the lower bull at 200 I tried the 300 XTP with 73 gr. of h-4198 and it leaked and also straight 60 gr. of H-4198 with the same bullet ( I went to my first mil dot with this load) and it shot 15” low and still leaked. I think I will take out the shim and go with the Winchester primers and stick with duplex loads since they work as well as any of the singles.  screen capture gifs upload |
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Post by Richard on Apr 11, 2016 21:53:23 GMT -5
These are the primers I was talking about. Notice how clean they are on the sides and bottom but the tops show the leakage coming out around the actual primer.  image sharing sites |
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Post by bestill458 on Apr 12, 2016 0:58:43 GMT -5
IMO headspace is a little to tight.
How much primer crush you getting?
I would try to get.002-.004 crush on primer.
To much will loosen primer seal to cup.
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Post by hillbill on Apr 12, 2016 4:17:13 GMT -5
shim it for feds Rich and end the problem, I have seen the same thing with CCIs
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2016 7:43:12 GMT -5
Interesting report Rich.
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Post by schunter on Apr 12, 2016 7:47:30 GMT -5
Good report Richard. Getting her tuned up for KY!
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Post by Richard on Apr 12, 2016 11:40:29 GMT -5
Thanks for the tip on loosening the head space..........would never have thought that?
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Post by elkman1310 on Apr 12, 2016 13:46:00 GMT -5
You sure have your share of primer problems. I have never seen the primer leak the way those did and I have really but some crush to them. Keep working at it. Hey that's pretty high velocity with the 225Gr. That would be a heck a varmint load.
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Post by Richard on Apr 12, 2016 19:19:15 GMT -5
Put a hurtin' on those Pa. ground hogs eh, Carl?
You know, never had much of a problem with primers until ya'll started busting my gonads about single powder load!!!! I was just happy with duplexing and Win. 209's!.......and from the way the duplex load has been working with Kyle's 300 gr. AccuMax's, I will be bring that to the Challenge.
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Post by keith on Apr 13, 2016 6:07:08 GMT -5
Why would a single powder destroy a primer and a duplex would not?
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Post by Richard on Apr 13, 2016 12:04:53 GMT -5
I didn't say they would not? I was getting leakage with the duplex with the CCI in my Shilen gun. Look at my comment on target #7. But, in my Brux, with Winchester primers and NO crush on the bottom, I was getting NO leakage around the sides or between the primer and cup. So why am I busting my butt to try solving a problem to satisfy what other think I should be doing?
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Post by elkman1310 on Apr 13, 2016 15:19:55 GMT -5
Richard your trying to compare your Brux barrel setup to the Shilen setup. Your Brux is using my bolt nose and my breech plug. I spent a considerable amount of time to correct all the problems that gun had. The Brux now has a Breech plug with the correct size primer pocket and correct depth your Shilen does not. And just looking at the primer chart you can see all the different sizes in diameter and in length and even in the thickness of the lip of the primer cup. If your off my more than a few thousands you will get sticky primers and some blow bye. A small amount of leakage on one side of the CCI is normal. That has never hurt the accuracy of my guns.
If I decide to go to the KY shoot I will bring along a action and a short barrel stub which is setup for my shoulder plug. I change the seating depth of the plug which in turn changes the depth of the primer it will clearly show you what happens when you start changing the head space. Also the same goes for the bolt retention cam screws. I made screws with different diameters. .202 down to .190. They will cause primers to stick. Also the little head space plugs I gave you one of those. I hope to make the shoot.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 16:45:43 GMT -5
Also the same goes for the bolt retention cam screws. I made screws with different diameters. .202 down to .190. They will cause primers to stick. Also the little head space plugs I gave you one of those. I hope to make the shoot. That is a great observation! I wouldn't have thought much of the retention screw causing an issue. I'll be ordering one soon. Still need to get a new bushing from Jeff, I'm very slow at getting my order out, dang life details!! Man I miss shooting! |
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Post by Kyle on Apr 13, 2016 19:10:01 GMT -5
Richard your trying to compare your Brux barrel setup to the Shilen setup. Your Brux is using my bolt nose and my breech plug. I spent a considerable amount of time to correct all the problems that gun had. The Brux now has a Breech plug with the correct size primer pocket and correct depth your Shilen does not. And just looking at the primer chart you can see all the different sizes in diameter and in length and even in the thickness of the lip of the primer cup. If your off my more than a few thousands you will get sticky primers and some blow bye. A small amount of leakage on one side of the CCI is normal. That has never hurt the accuracy of my guns. If I decide to go to the KY shoot I will bring along a action and a short barrel stub which is setup for my shoulder plug. I change the seating depth of the plug which in turn changes the depth of the primer it will clearly show you what happens when you start changing the head space. Also the same goes for the bolt retention cam screws. I made screws with different diameters. .202 down to .190. They will cause primers to stick. Also the little head space plugs I gave you one of those. I hope to make the shoot. Elkman, I think you will have a great time at the shoot. Friday we will set up the targets and a few other finishing touches around the bench area. Jeff will declare the range open in the afternoon and the fun begins. Looks like a smorgasbord of great food for Friday night. Plenty of wood is stacked for the campfire. Saturday and Sunday morning enough breakfast to feed a small army. Bacon, country ham, biscuits and gravy, toast, eggs and more. Saturday I think Jeff is making chilli. It's nice to see a large group that is involved in muzzleloading / smokeless muzzleloading all in the same place at the same time. I learn something every time I go. We all benefit when we can get together and share thoughts and ideas, regardless of ones level of experience. I believe that Life long friends have been made at the Kentucky Challenge. I hope you and anyone else reading that is considering making the event to come and have some good clean fun. |
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Post by Richard on Apr 13, 2016 19:22:34 GMT -5
Now I have to worry about Elkman comeing and kicking my butt!!! (You better be on your "A" game carl!) I just hope I don't have to shoot a crow to eat!  And my problem was not with the Brux you did Carl, it was the Shilen. The only problem with the Brux was what we discussed. That cratering of the Fed. primers getting caught in the firing pin hole. Not leakage. |
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Post by hillbill on Apr 13, 2016 20:19:24 GMT -5
Hope to see Carl there, the more new faces we see the better.
Cleaned my barrel tonight and finished up my stock plate for the front bag, no lead sled for me this time out. will likely not get to shoot til I get up there next week so no threat from me for sure!
nothing at all wrong with Winchester 209s and a duplex Richard, it works and that's all that matters. I have used Winchesters almost exclusively for years and never had a problem, even down to 5 degrees with a straight load of 4198.
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Apr 13, 2016 20:33:03 GMT -5
I haven't pulled a trigger in months. Gonna try and hit the range this weekend....but then I said that last weekend also. But health and the weather was bad. But .....anyway.... Hopefully.
Drop
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Post by Richard on Apr 14, 2016 8:36:18 GMT -5
You know..............you can practice and still have a bad day. Look at Jordan Speith on the 12th. hole at the masters........with a nice lead, he went 4 over and from first to fourth in a heartbeat? Fece' will Occur!  Bill........I do all my shooting off the sled since I am not hunting, so no reason for me to change just for Kentucky. Some people say they don't like lead sleds because their groups are not as good as when they shoot with one?; that is why we have choices. Hope your health is OK for the shoot Russ.........! I have a sister up north with health issues and could get a call  We have to deal with the hand we are dealt? Hope everyone can make it (you hear that Carl?) |
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