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Post by Kyle on Apr 1, 2016 12:12:38 GMT -5
Which variable do you feel is more challenging to compensate for in a hunting situation with your muzzleloader?
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Post by dannoboone on Apr 1, 2016 13:34:32 GMT -5
Would be surprised if the answers to this poll get less than 100% of one choice. It's also the
most challenging at the firing range......with any rifle.
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Post by elkman1310 on Apr 1, 2016 13:56:09 GMT -5
All depends on how far your trying to shoot. Like Clint Eastwood said a man has to know his limitations. That said knowing the exact distance past 300 yards is important with our high vel M/L wind is always a factor. But having a good solid shooting rest is right at the top if your can't get a good steady aiming point the rest doesn't matter.
Kyle good job on the bullets I have a couple guy's that will be placing orders in the near future.
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Post by keith on Apr 1, 2016 14:57:15 GMT -5
Compensation for drop is not hard if you know the range. Wind is non-deterministic and the thing everyone works hardest to overcome.
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Post by rojo23 on Apr 1, 2016 17:53:49 GMT -5
I would say wind as well. If you dial for the wind and right before you pull the trigger the wind dies down and you pull the trigger well there is a miss. The distance is constant, so known distances are much easier to correct for.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 19:13:57 GMT -5
Wind has to be, as its unmeasurable and invisible...But the longer the distance the more the effect that wind will have...there is a correlation between the two....
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Post by jims on Apr 1, 2016 19:21:20 GMT -5
Years ago before accurate range finders distance was also a critical factor, today I would say the wind between the two.
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Post by Richard on Apr 1, 2016 19:56:28 GMT -5
That is a no brainer! With our sophisticated laser range finders, distance is a moot point but the "HAWK", now that is a horse of a different color! Since I regularly shoot competitive 600 yard bench rest matches I see it first hand..............three shots clustered together in an inch or less and then two more 3" to the right to give you a 4" group  That wind has a way of "picking up?" and "dropping off" without you knowing it. Unless you have the advantage of being able to shoot a sighter prior to a record shot, you are just peeing in the wind trying to figure how much or how little to "hold off!" That is why most all ultra long range sniper hits take multiple shots with the aid of a good scout/spotter! Because wind tends to swirl, you could be feeling a slight L to R on your face but at 200, 400, 500 it could be doing altogether different. |
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Post by jaymiller5 on Apr 5, 2016 8:43:24 GMT -5
Wind for sure. Was shooting yesterday at 1k+ and had zero wind to 200 yards and ~13mph at 600 and ~20mph at 1000. Then it would drop off completely at distance but pick up on the line. Had a dozen shots miss because of bad wind calls and/or terrible trigger follow thru.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 8:59:54 GMT -5
I agree with Keith and the others about wind...it kicks my butt especially with smaller bullets. The drop variable is just a practice issue.
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Post by chiefkillumdeer on Apr 7, 2016 13:43:36 GMT -5
Its actually distant wind. Wind doesn't mean crap at ave deer hunting yardage. So really without compensating for distance, which means you are shooting far, distance precedes wind. Also the question does not reference equipment, so I am assuming a shot with no range finder and nothing to predict wind, like an open bare ground farm. I would say most people couldn't predict the distance between a 325 yrd shot within any closer margin than you could predict a 10mph wind. So the two go hand in hand. Now throw in a range finder, wind is the no brainer.
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Post by keith on Apr 8, 2016 5:42:57 GMT -5
So if wind is 12mph at full value over the first 200yds and is only 6mph for the next 300yds due to value or a deviation, the faster wind over normal distance (200yds) is unimportant?
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Post by jaymiller5 on Apr 8, 2016 10:27:52 GMT -5
So if wind is 12mph at full value over the first 200yds and is only 6mph for the next 300yds due to value or a deviation, the faster wind over normal distance (200yds) is unimportant? Lol you got it nailed down. KP, it sounds like we would get along pretty well at the range. |
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Post by Richard on Apr 8, 2016 19:40:03 GMT -5
Jay.........I used to hold the IBS 1K light gun record group from 2002 to 2007, but now only shoot the 600 yard matches at Piedmont in NC...........So how do/did you determine those wind velocities? For me it was simply where my sighters hit.....mph was irrelevant. Again, just curious when specific MPH's at certain distances are quoted? The wind socks we had out at Hawk's Ridge would basically give you an idea of direction and intensity to some degree but I could never put a mph to it and the only important thing was POI. Thanks!
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Post by deadeye on Apr 8, 2016 23:24:00 GMT -5
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Post by keith on Apr 9, 2016 6:58:41 GMT -5
Rich,
Like I said before, the big flags are slow indicators but at a minimum they allow you to determine value and a weighting factor based on where they are on flight path. Double down on what you call intensity (try dividing flag angle by 4 to ball park gradient and I round up 1-2mph) and compare it to natural indicators and mirage. It works in matches where your sighter is your first round down range whether a hit or miss.
With this method my buddy Norm, who has represented the USA in international Palma since the 70s, can hit wind within 1mph with rare windage misses in normal conditions. I'm about 3/4 as good as he is on making an accurate first call as he is past 800m but this method works for me also. When winds get to steady values over 15mph and gusts over that, nobody is going to do well without some sort of wind sensor array. There is a reason laser wind readers are in the works.
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Post by jaymiller5 on Apr 9, 2016 13:17:34 GMT -5
Jay.........I used to hold the IBS 1K light gun record group from 2002 to 2007, but now only shoot the 600 yard matches at Piedmont in NC...........So how do/did you determine those wind velocities? For me it was simply where my sighters hit.....mph was irrelevant. Again, just curious when specific MPH's at certain distances are quoted? The wind socks we had out at Hawk's Ridge would basically give you an idea of direction and intensity to some degree but I could never put a mph to it and the only important thing was POI. Thanks! A guy at the range that was in the lane next to me had wind indicators and target cameras set out. Extensive setup that i am sure was crazy expensive but it was good for practicing wind calls because i suck at it. |
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Post by Richard on Apr 9, 2016 19:31:56 GMT -5
OK, that stuff makes sense. For the game I shoot you are able to see your sighter hits either on an adjacent berm with clay birds or on spotter targets (if you are shooting on a range with pits). We had a hellava day with the wind today at 600 and I will put some stuff and eventually pictures on the other thread I started on Kyle' front porch!
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That wind has a way of "picking up?" and "dropping off" without you knowing it. Unless you have the advantage of being able to shoot a sighter prior to a record shot, you are just peeing in the wind trying to figure how much or how little to "hold off!" That is why most all ultra long range sniper hits take multiple shots with the aid of a good scout/spotter! Because wind tends to swirl, you could be feeling a slight L to R on your face but at 200, 400, 500 it could be doing altogether different.
