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Post by Kyle on Mar 14, 2016 21:54:52 GMT -5
Didn't want to derail the other thread so I'm starting this one to address the issue of headspace and breech plugs for muzzleloaders. Jeff has built HIS system, at least on breech plugs that he installs, to allow his breech plugs to interchange from one gun to the next without headspace issues. Example: This actually happened... Jeff was so busy at both of his jobs and getting ready for the last shoot that he brought his rifle to the shoot without its plug installed. Im sure he is not the first and won't be the last. I know I have done similar things. I have 3 of Jeff's plugs, 1 with a .035" bushing and 2 without bushings that are 041". I let Jeff use one of my .041" plugs in his gun for the shoot and everything worked fine. If you have a Hankins Gun and need another plug give Jeff a call and he can send you one that will fit your gun without any modifications. This is made possible because of the tolerances Jeff holds on his CNC lathe that makes each and every plug.
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Post by motox369 on Mar 15, 2016 3:21:14 GMT -5
I always read about sticking primers, shims, and headspace issues on other designs and wander why someone wants to deal with that
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Post by elkman1310 on Mar 15, 2016 9:25:29 GMT -5
Kyle great work on the bullets. Let me just say that when I build a M/L I keep a record of each gun and what breech plug and head space I used in that gun. If a customer needs another plug all he has to do is call and I can send him one for his gun. I also keep a record of the bore diameter of the barrel and it is also etched right on the side of the barrel. Everyone gets a sizing die I set each die up so they don't have to fool around with a micrometer most people are totally lost when it comes to reading a micrometer especially when your dealing in 1/10ths.
Jeff has a nice system for CF users but it is totally reliant on Jeff making the primer holders. A 209 primer can be bought just about anywhere in the world and at a lot less cost. You fire a 209 primer and then you toss it. With Jeff's you better not lose it. Also you need to knock the old primer out and install a new one it certainly is not hard to do but it is just more work than is needed.
I have had both systems and I can not see any accuracy advantage using LRMP over 209 primers. I normally shot about 50 shots and then pull the breech plug to check for build up in the flame channel and when you clean it you get very little carbon compared to a Savage plug.
What I kept trying to tell people over at Doug's is when you make your parts right the first time around you don't need shims and epoxy and all the other home made fixes they talk about. The other thing is I don't care to tie up a CF action to build a M/L
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Post by hillbill on Mar 19, 2016 12:08:35 GMT -5
Each to their own and no one system is going to please everyone.
I shoot both systems and likely always will, properly done the 209 rig works great, just takes some tweaking up front to get it right.
Jeff's system is a no tweak go shoot with no worries.
All in what one likes, personally I like both, right now I have 2 guns with each system, I am happy with both.
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Post by wtwthunter on Apr 14, 2016 21:05:51 GMT -5
I have been reading and researching a lot about smokeless muzzleloaders. I have a Hankins Smokeless Muzzleloader on order. I am just getting started so I have no experience with these rifles. I have been reading a lot of the posts on this board. I was just wondering how long will one of Jeff's breech plug's last? Do I need to get an extra breech plug to have on hand? Again I am new at this and any advice will be appreciated. Thanks
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Post by Kyle on Apr 14, 2016 21:18:14 GMT -5
The tungsten alloy bushing in the plug is the wear item, but withstand many hundreds of shots before replacement is needed. It's nice to have an extra plug just in case you misplace one. Use sparingly a good grease for your breech plug threads. Too much applied will create a hydraulic barrier and not allow a rear sealing plug to seal properly. Often times a bolt will not close on a breech plug with too much grease if the headspace is tight. Congratulations on your choice!
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Post by wtwthunter on Apr 14, 2016 21:35:16 GMT -5
Thanks for the information. How will a person know when the bushing needs changed in the breech plug?
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Post by linebaugh on Apr 15, 2016 11:17:05 GMT -5
Wtwt,
I'm no expert on this subject but you can use a set of torch tip drills/cleaners as a set of pin guages to check your errosion. You may see it in your accuracy shift as well.
If accuracy is there and there is no powder falling through the bushing I would not worry much with Jeffs system.
On a 209 system it will start to show up as primer bulge i believe.
All that said I think you will get a ton of shots on a bushing with the HIS system. Pounds of powder. That is just a guess, i do not own one.
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Post by Squeeze on Apr 17, 2016 8:25:38 GMT -5
I Shoot mostly Blackhorn powder. I will get typically about ~200 shots on a ventliner. I don't normally gauge the vent, or even mess with them much, Just the flash channel. Usually you will notice accuracy just drops. I usually carry a spare BP in my range bag, and just switch, then clean at home and replace the used vent, and that BP then becomes the next spare. To me, the drop in accuracy usually happens fast, (all of a sudden seemingly) Number of shots can vary depending on typical load. Im sure a bushing would last multiples of a vent, so might be a different scenario.
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