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Post by bowhunter836 on Mar 10, 2016 12:35:03 GMT -5
I dont read many books at all! But I just finished reading the book about carlos hathcock a sniper in Vietnam man that guy was a badass I found myself not being able to put the book down
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gar
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Post by gar on Mar 10, 2016 14:17:33 GMT -5
Yep, and he most likely had a bunch more. There are interviews on youtube with him and he is quite humble and unassuming but you can tell he was extremely confident in his abilities, a phenomenal soldier.
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Post by Yankee Bill on Mar 10, 2016 18:52:14 GMT -5
He was a Speaker at our Graduation when I graduated from the Sheriff's Dept. Academy in 1991. A very engaging and intriguing Speaker to say the least. He had been diagnosed with, I believe, Parkinson's disease IIRC, some time before that but was still ambulatory, and quite captivating.
One of the great Hero's of our time!
YB
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Post by hillbill on Mar 11, 2016 14:08:30 GMT -5
not only a great sniper but a great marksman. I have read some books on Hathcock myself and IMO likely the greatest sniper EVER given the tools and environment he worked in, had it not been for getting badly burned I believe he would have been one of the best shooters of all time upon his return from war.
Many modern day snipers look to him as the Father of their craft...
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Post by bowhunter836 on Mar 11, 2016 19:40:42 GMT -5
Yes his amazing skills at shooting was just the beginning his skills in the jungle to become one with the environment and to engage humans that were hunting him with primitive weaponry compared to modern weapons is untouched
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Post by keith on Mar 12, 2016 15:21:11 GMT -5
Not to turn this into a Marine vs Soldier debate but Google the name Adelbert Waldron. I also do not wish to turn this into a moral debate but I feel like "great" is a word you should be careful bestowing on snipers because having discussed this with my peers and mentors when you kill that mean people the discussion gets complicated.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2016 16:36:35 GMT -5
Not to turn this into a Marine vs Soldier debate but Google the name Adelbert Waldron. I also do not wish to turn this into a moral debate but I feel like "great" is a word you should be careful bestowing on snipers because having discussed this with my peers and mentors when you kill that mean people the discussion gets complicated. How 'bout the term "proficient"? |
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Post by Yankee Bill on Mar 12, 2016 18:32:16 GMT -5
Not to turn this into a Marine vs Soldier debate but Google the name Adelbert Waldron. I also do not wish to turn this into a moral debate but I feel like "great" is a word you should be careful bestowing on snipers because having discussed this with my peers and mentors when you kill that mean people the discussion gets complicated. I would respectfully partially disagree when, as in this case, the word "great" was bestowed upon them as a term of endearment and admiration for their accomplishments, as viewed from a common layman's perspective. As with all things in life, everything can be viewed from many perspectives.
But I understand what you are trying to convey, I can see that side of the coin as well.
YB
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Post by keith on Mar 12, 2016 20:23:46 GMT -5
I understand exactly what everyone is saying, but as it was put to me, "make sure you feel good about it every time because someday you may feel differently." I took that advice to heart and I preach it to my dudes. I personally think there is a reason most guys have far lower numbers than a fistful of guys have, especially considering how target rich some of the environments have been. Maybe you have to have carried a long gun where you spend hours to days looking at people and stuff from one spot to understand what I'm saying; it's not a chance encounter every time like it is for most ground guys. Sometimes it is, just depends on what you are doing.
Case in point, I watched a guy beat the living hell out of his wife for a hot minute from a dark room just off the Euphrates. He chased her all over their courtyard while she attempted to run or fight back. I had watched her and her daughter/daughter-in-law for two days before this jackass ever showed up. They had cooked, cleaned, played with kids, fed an infant, etc. Otherwise normal life without this dude and I have no idea what caused it but he worked her over real good. We had a quick discussion about ending that fight for her but the team decided that wasn't right. It could have easily turned out differently.
On the other hand, I nearly shot an old man one night off a roof because he looked at me and something glinted through my NVGs. Looked for all the world like an optic looking at me. My boss saw it the same time I did and I heard his selector go the same time as mine did. There should have been a flash from that roof by then but wasn't. We pulled them out of the house and found nothing. They were just up on the roof because it stays hot through the night in the summer and were awake because they heard the same gunfire we were going to check out. No idea what we both saw but there were only four of us there and it could have gone differently.
I don't know anyone who has killed anywhere near that amount of people with a long gun and I've known some talented guys with lots of opportunity. I don't mean to take away from them, I'm just saying I think it's a slippery slope. I think the sole exception to that rule was Simo Hayha and a lot of his was done on skis with a subgun against an invading Red Army.
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Post by airborneike on Mar 12, 2016 20:32:38 GMT -5
Keith,
You are "spot on" and as we have talked before, no one thinks they will get old. What we do in our youth will most likely be viewed through a different spectrum of age.
I knew Carlos Hathcock and he was not a "great" human by social standards...good Marine who cared for his men, absolutely. He was also very good at his job of killing and he liked his job ,arguably, too much when he was young. It wore on him as he got older just as it does on any man who takes human life on any scale.
Complicated discussion....way understated....
Good luck...De Opresso Liber"
Mike
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Post by Yankee Bill on Mar 12, 2016 22:01:39 GMT -5
Well stated Keith. I don't know how anyone could do it myself, my conscience would get the better of me early on. I takes a special breed of person to handle that kind of pressure. I, thankfully, was never put in a position in my LE career where I ended up having to take a life, but I know several other officers who weren't so fortunate.
Some handled it ok, others not very well. And of course these were strictly SD shootings, Apples to Oranges compared to hunting another Human Being down.
My hat goes off to all who bear that burden.
YB
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Post by hillbill on Mar 12, 2016 22:05:24 GMT -5
we, the non operator world play way too much glamour into the whole sniper scene. you guys have been there, done that, seen the aftermath and live with it daily. what you do and have done saves the lives of your fighting brothers, American lives, and for that we should be grateful, I AM. my hat is off to both of you and to all who has and is walking in your shoes today.
THANKS GUYS for defending our country..
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Post by bowhunter836 on Mar 18, 2016 11:47:33 GMT -5
Did some research and reading about albert waldron wow theres alot of mystery that follows this guy! Some say he was awol they also claim he was stationed in a free fire zone with night vision and shot more women and children then VC so they pulled him out over his reckless killing others say it didn't happen kinda crazy reading about this guy
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