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Post by mike on Jan 31, 2016 23:52:00 GMT -5
I have a question regarding my father's insistence that hunting whitetail from a tree stand in the State of Michigan was illegal up until some time in the late 60's or early 70's. I had never heard of any restrictions pertaining to the use of tree stands for hunting in any State let alone Michigan. I've searched the internet and have found nothing on this topic. Does anyone have any first hand knowledge on this subject as pertains to the State of Michigan? Just curious. Thanks.
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Post by deadeyedon89 on Feb 1, 2016 6:47:30 GMT -5
I am 45 yrs old and have been deer hunting since I was 12 yrs old..... Deer hunting out of a Treestand "with a firearm" was illegal for many years. You could hunt out of a treestand with archery equipment but not a gun. It was the fall of 1997 or 1998 that they started letting gun hunters hunt deer from a raised platform. I had a uncle that got a citation for climbing on top of a blowdown trees rootball with a firearm. I don't know if this helps but that is from my era.
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Post by mike on Feb 1, 2016 12:07:51 GMT -5
Thanks deadeyedon89,
Very interesting, so it was in fact illegal until 1997 or '98 to hunt with firearms from a raised platform, but legal when using archery gear.
My father has always belittled hunters enjoying their sport using tree stands, ground blinds, high power rifles, compound bows, laser range finders, automatic feeders, trail cameras and etc. He feels it isn't fair chase hunting unless one sneaks within 10 yards of the game animal with a long bow or recurve. In family or social settings, when he is present, I can't tell a story of any of my hunting adventures without him putting me down, indirectly, with his opinion and repeating his story of his six year epic journey to still hunt and kill the one and only deer he ever killed, a small spike buck, with his recurve. Annoys me every time I have to sit through this, but it just isn't worth the argument. He usually finishes up his diatribe by validating his opinion with the statement that Michigan didn't even allow the use of tree stands when he was hunting. So his statement isn't entirely true, especially since he was bow hunting for his single kill.
I thank goodness for all the hunting advancements that have opened up the sport of hunting to the masses including women and disabled hunters. I believe we should all enjoy hunting anyway we like as long as it is legal. The biggest problem we face now is access to land. Here in Illinois 98% of the land is in private ownership and one can forget about obtaining permission to hunt private land. Most all the good land with wildlife habitat is leased by outfitting services charging substantial rates for short hunts. My dream is to retire someplace where there is an abundance of public land.
Thanks for the information, Mike
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Post by hawghunter on Feb 1, 2016 15:44:54 GMT -5
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Post by bowhunter836 on Feb 1, 2016 19:07:50 GMT -5
Yes I agree I remember when it became legal to hunt in a treestand with a gun
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 20:09:58 GMT -5
When the baker climber came out is when I first started to climb...except mine was made from an aluminum streetsign and some steel rectangular tubing....I'm guessing 1982...As far as I can remember climbing was legal,it was just sneaking into the closed area that we were mostly concerned about...lol..
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Post by mike on Feb 1, 2016 20:31:24 GMT -5
Hey hawghunter, thanks for the information and the DNR document. Some really interesting historical stuff.
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gar
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Post by gar on Feb 1, 2016 20:35:05 GMT -5
I hunted Michigan sine 1964 and yes all hunting from an elevated platform was illegal until the mid 70's when it only became legal for archery deer hunting. It then became legal for bear hunting. Later still it became legal for those hunting with a gun. And if you read the rules closely you will notice it is only for deer and bear. Technically no rabbit, squirrel, coyotes or anything else listed as legal from an elevated platform.
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Post by keith on Feb 2, 2016 6:26:44 GMT -5
Some game laws are insane. Like no hunting on Sunday in parts of the South; I can hunt on past on Sunday but the populace off post can only bow hunt and then they have to own the land or be a direct relation. In lots of counties here you must be elevated 10' to use a rifle. States that have .50 caliber restrictions for big game are going off antiquated gun data to prevent dudes from trying it with squirrel guns.
I can appreciate your dad's sentiment though. I gave up wheel bows by the time I was at university. I don't own a treestand. I hate crossbows and now air bows except for the handicapped. That said, in our current environment I feel unity is more important. If it's legal and moral then do it.
It's sort of like making fun of guys for doing curls in the gym because I think cleans are better. At least he is there working out.
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gar
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Post by gar on Feb 2, 2016 6:50:21 GMT -5
You know, back in the day most everybody in Michigan that bow hunted used a Bear recurve. They were made in Grayling and of course Fred Bear owned the company. Fred wrote numerous stories in outdoor magazines as a way of advertising the sport. He was also instrumental in the legalization of archery season in Michigan. Also there were no tree stands around then. Fred was a stalker for the most part on whatever he was after. There were some hunts like lion and tiger where he took up a "post", but most were still hunting and stalking and for the most part he rarely used camo. And Howard Hill never used camo, felt it was taking advantage. Just goes to show, times change.
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Post by chiefkillumdeer on Feb 3, 2016 11:18:30 GMT -5
Your Dad is entitled to his own opinion of course, but I find it sad that he cant let you tell your stories and be excited over your successes and failures regardless of hunting style or weapon used. I have friends that bash me because I hunt several different states (so those deer dont count) I shoot all year at extreme long ranges so if I kill a deer far away it wasn't sporting. Screw em. I have killed deer from the ground from twenty feet with a recurve as well. I can tell you for me personally It is way harder to sit still in a tree stand all day than to walk around and look at rubs ,trails, scrapes, tracks, maybe jump a deer or two. But I fight the urge to move because I did all that wlking during my scouting and then one day,,,,,,,,it all comes together and I get a good one. Tell me that I didnt work hard for my deer or enjoy my hunt all you want. I know better. Good luck to all of you. lets all enjoy what makes us happy.......
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2016 12:30:10 GMT -5
I understand your Dad's way of thinking , I'm pretty hard on my kids. ( the first are in there thirties) Big bucks used to be a honor to even see. When I was a kid a guy from the local town lost pretty much all his hunting ground over crippling the local monster. Hunting used to have a certain reverence. Big bucks were a gift they weren't made. If you didn't need meat you didn't hunt. Gut shot deer were a disgrace. I still hunt in my Carhartts , I have a muzzleloader can kill deer to 300 yds. killed one at 275 yds. but will never do it again, just never felt good about it. Your Dad came from a different era. It's really not your Dad it was a time. I'm not going to tell anybody they are wrong using scent lock clothes, stands, cameras, food plots,bait or mineral or even fences.But it just isn't some of us old farts. Don't get me wrong the old model 97 I learned to deer hunt with still sets in the corner of the bedroom but it will kill no more deer for me. And someday I'll get old enough (God be willin ) nothing I believe in will matter to anybody but right now I got guys like your Dad who I can still relate to. Go on and create your own eras it's your God given right.
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Post by mike on Feb 3, 2016 14:57:50 GMT -5
Some game laws are insane. Like no hunting on Sunday in parts of the South; I can hunt on past on Sunday but the populace off post can only bow hunt and then they have to own the land or be a direct relation. In lots of counties here you must be elevated 10' to use a rifle. States that have .50 caliber restrictions for big game are going off antiquated gun data to prevent dudes from trying it with squirrel guns. I can appreciate your dad's sentiment though. I gave up wheel bows by the time I was at university. I don't own a treestand. I hate crossbows and now air bows except for the handicapped. That said, in our current environment I feel unity is more important. If it's legal and moral then do it. It's sort of like making fun of guys for doing curls in the gym because I think cleans are better. At least he is there working out. I agree, Keith. There are many out-dated and antiquated game laws. The "No Sunday Hunting" law in force in some states is absolutely ridiculous. Most working people only have Saturdays and Sundays to hunt and not being able to hunt Sundays severely limits their time in the field. More many it just isn't worth it if travel is required. I think it's vitally important to encourage people, especially children and young people, to use whatever legal method they choose since fewer people are participating in hunting as years wear on. And the less people involved in hunting, fishing, trapping and shooting sports; the more legislative strength we lose and place in the hands of the haters who want nothing more than to stop us from doing what we enjoy.
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Post by itneverends22 on Feb 3, 2016 15:00:56 GMT -5
I understand your Dad's way of thinking , I'm pretty hard on my kids. ( the first are in there thirties) Big bucks used to be a honor to even see. When I was a kid a guy from the local town lost pretty much all his hunting ground over crippling the local monster. Hunting used to have a certain reverence. Big bucks were a gift they weren't made. If you didn't need meat you didn't hunt. Gut shot deer were a disgrace. I still hunt in my Carhartts , I have a muzzleloader can kill deer to 300 yds. killed one at 275 yds. but will never do it again, just never felt good about it. Your Dad came from a different era. It's really not your Dad it was a time. I'm not going to tell anybody they are wrong using scent lock clothes, stands, cameras, food plots,bait or mineral or even fences.But it just isn't some of us old farts. Don't get me wrong the old model 97 I learned to deer hunt with still sets in the corner of the bedroom but it will kill no more deer for me. And someday I'll get old enough (God be willin ) nothing I believe in will matter to anybody but right now I got guys like your Dad who I can still relate to. Go on and create your own eras it's your God given right. +1 your words hold true,my kids call me (old school)..
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Post by mike on Feb 3, 2016 15:02:27 GMT -5
You know, back in the day most everybody in Michigan that bow hunted used a Bear recurve. They were made in Grayling and of course Fred Bear owned the company. Fred wrote numerous stories in outdoor magazines as a way of advertising the sport. He was also instrumental in the legalization of archery season in Michigan. Also there were no tree stands around then. Fred was a stalker for the most part on whatever he was after. There were some hunts like lion and tiger where he took up a "post", but most were still hunting and stalking and for the most part he rarely used camo. And Howard Hill never used camo, felt it was taking advantage. Just goes to show, times change. Yea, I remember as a kid watching films of Fred Bear on his still hunts stalking up close for his shot wearing his red plaid wool jacket. Of course, we all have seen what the "American Marketing Machine" has done to all of our outdoor sports and most everything else. Unfortunately the profit motive drives the advancement of almost every activity.
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Post by mike on Feb 3, 2016 15:11:27 GMT -5
Your Dad is entitled to his own opinion of course, but I find it sad that he cant let you tell your stories and be excited over your successes and failures regardless of hunting style or weapon used. I have friends that bash me because I hunt several different states (so those deer dont count) I shoot all year at extreme long ranges so if I kill a deer far away it wasn't sporting. Screw em. I have killed deer from the ground from twenty feet with a recurve as well. I can tell you for me personally It is way harder to sit still in a tree stand all day than to walk around and look at rubs ,trails, scrapes, tracks, maybe jump a deer or two. But I fight the urge to move because I did all that wlking during my scouting and then one day,,,,,,,,it all comes together and I get a good one. Tell me that I didnt work hard for my deer or enjoy my hunt all you want. I know better. Good luck to all of you. lets all enjoy what makes us happy....... I grew up in the northern suburbs of Chicago and there were very few that had any concept whatsoever of what hunting is all about. They were brain washed by what they learned from the liberal lame-stream media and it isn't very complimentary. I have often asked critics of hunting, who think hunting is simply a matter of strolling into the woods and killing an animal just standing there; have you ever tried to sit still and quiet for several hours? Most have absolutely no clue.
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Post by mike on Feb 3, 2016 15:21:05 GMT -5
I understand your Dad's way of thinking , I'm pretty hard on my kids. ( the first are in there thirties) Big bucks used to be a honor to even see. When I was a kid a guy from the local town lost pretty much all his hunting ground over crippling the local monster. Hunting used to have a certain reverence. Big bucks were a gift they weren't made. If you didn't need meat you didn't hunt. Gut shot deer were a disgrace. I still hunt in my Carhartts , I have a muzzleloader can kill deer to 300 yds. killed one at 275 yds. but will never do it again, just never felt good about it. Your Dad came from a different era. It's really not your Dad it was a time. I'm not going to tell anybody they are wrong using scent lock clothes, stands, cameras, food plots,bait or mineral or even fences.But it just isn't some of us old farts. Don't get me wrong the old model 97 I learned to deer hunt with still sets in the corner of the bedroom but it will kill no more deer for me. And someday I'll get old enough (God be willin ) nothing I believe in will matter to anybody but right now I got guys like your Dad who I can still relate to. Go on and create your own eras it's your God given right. Yes, you are correct, nobody. The experiences of those from a different era forms much of their opinion. But we all have to be aware of and accepting that times change. Sort of like arguing who was the greatest athlete in any sport; it can't be argued because so may things change from one era to another. I always chuckle about comparisons of NASCAR and INDY car drivers some of which, in the early years, raced in t-shirts while smoking cigars! They simply had no clue how their sport would develop and advance to where it is now.
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Post by chiefkillumdeer on Feb 4, 2016 0:17:07 GMT -5
I have a book written by a friend and camera man for Fred bear. Fred wounded more animals than all of us on this forum. It often took him days to get enough arrows in some of his trophys to kill. He allegedly never met a shot he wouldn't take. His theory was get an arrow in and if it doesn't kill stalk the animal until you could get another arrow in. Much the same as the old 30/30 open sight shots at running deer. You don't hear this generation talking down on it. We just don't do that anymore. Even the spotlight hogs on TV will pass up shot after shot until they get a good broadside or quartering kill. Some things just evolve. Heck we are on the internet talking on a forum. Our Granddads had to send each other letters. I think teaching our young hunters to use tools like rangefinders to make an ethical kill shot is just the responsible thing to do. It makes me laugh when I see a guy pull up to a guide service in his 50 k pickup, play on his smart phone and laptop all evening then pull out his longbow in the morning and grandstand about how he hunts the hard way. JMO.
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Post by 10gaauto on Feb 4, 2016 15:44:56 GMT -5
Just tell your Dad about how we do it here in VA and other parts of the south. Hounds, GPS collars for the dogs, semi-auto shotguns stuffed with 5 or 6 shells of buckshot, groups of anywhere from 6 to 150 men with radios and coordinated hunting effort, tree and tower stands, PU trucks with elevated platforms, tripod stands in overgrown brush areas, very liberal limits, pleasant weather to hunt in, clubhouses with hot breakfast and lunch. Oh yeah, it's thick here, very thick in many places. Many hunters don't understand the needs and traditions of hunting in the south. Some here even think it is unethical to use treestands or rifles or archery equipment of any kind. Long range shooting is often simply referred to as just some sniper guy with a big rifle and no ethics or hunting skill out to just kill deer any way he can and since he can't hunt he just shoots them way far away.
Personally I like all kinds of hunting. I don't use archery equipment for hunting but do bowfish. I hunt with shotgun, SML, smokers, handguns and rifles. Tend to use whatever is prescribed by tradition and allowed by law. You really want to get some discussion and heated opinions just talk to some of the "buckskinner" crowd about modern ML practices.
IMHO a dead deer is dead and really doesn't matter how you make them dead.
Best to all 10
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Post by mike on Feb 4, 2016 23:03:29 GMT -5
Just tell your Dad about how we do it here in VA and other parts of the south. Hounds, GPS collars for the dogs, semi-auto shotguns stuffed with 5 or 6 shells of buckshot, groups of anywhere from 6 to 150 men with radios and coordinated hunting effort, tree and tower stands, PU trucks with elevated platforms, tripod stands in overgrown brush areas, very liberal limits, pleasant weather to hunt in, clubhouses with hot breakfast and lunch. Oh yeah, it's thick here, very thick in many places. Many hunters don't understand the needs and traditions of hunting in the south. Some here even think it is unethical to use treestands or rifles or archery equipment of any kind. Long range shooting is often simply referred to as just some sniper guy with a big rifle and no ethics or hunting skill out to just kill deer any way he can and since he can't hunt he just shoots them way far away. Personally I like all kinds of hunting. I don't use archery equipment for hunting but do bowfish. I hunt with shotgun, SML, smokers, handguns and rifles. Tend to use whatever is prescribed by tradition and allowed by law. You really want to get some discussion and heated opinions just talk to some of the "buckskinner" crowd about modern ML practices. IMHO a dead deer is dead and really doesn't matter how you make them dead. Best to all 10 Sounds like a lot of fun! I'd like to participate in a dog/deer chase some day.
Was invited to participate in a beagle hunt for rabbits in Alabama a number of years ago, had a lot of fun. I was intrigued with why the dogs chased the rabbits and one of the dog owners replied, "because they are hungry." They had previously told me that when rabbits are killed it's important to get to the rabbit as soon as possible and definitely before the beagles get to it.
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