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Post by Richard on Jan 20, 2016 20:18:25 GMT -5
I again was playing in the shop with another method to create a hollow base in the Hornady SST. Previously I had been doing it on the lathe. This time I used the milling machine. I have a collet vise that bolts to the table on the mill. With the countersink in the collet of the mill and the vise lined up with a pilot, I proceeded to hollow base some more 300 gr. SST’s plus a few 250 grainers. They look pretty good to the eye but was not sure how they would fly compared to the ones done on the lathe. To start the 17* morning off (we got our shooting room up to 46* before the morning was over) I fouled the barrel with three 300 gr. SST’s with a wad and a 10/60 …Unique/H-4198 duplex. The first sot was somewhat slower than the succeeding two and the group was just 1.9” Next I went to the 280 gr. SST ( a 20 gr. loss by creating a hollow base) with my old standby 10/60 Clays/H-4198 duplex. NO WAD! And done on the mill. Five shots averaged 2925 fps and had a 34 fps ES. Not a good group @ 2.8” with the best 3 @ .8” Moving along to the same bullet WITH A WAD the average of 5 shots was 2797 fps with a 22 fps ES. 3 shots (in a row) went .5” with 4 @ 1.1” and all five in 2.0”. Better but not what I was looking for! The fourth group was shot with the same bullet, NO WAD but lathe turned. Here, 5 shots came in at 2805 fps with a 19 fps ES. Three shots went .5” with all five in .9”. Considerably better……….and maybe they will not get any better? I will still play! For the 5th. group, I went with the 230 gr. SST (hollowing the base removes, like on the 300’s, approximately 20 gr. of copper and lead) NO WAD and the same 10/60 duplex. I kind of had a mix of velocities (not sure why?) 1, 4 and 5 averaged around 2955 with only 13 fps ES but somehow, 2 and 3 were at 3020? It did not effect the first three shots as they measured .5” in a nice cloverleaf? Four @ 1” and five @ 1.4”. In any event, I decided to try them at 300 yards. I only had five left and used one on our steel gong to make sure I would be on target. The next four, of which the chronograph only captured two shots (sun) 2992 and 2994 created a decent 1.7” group. That was encouraging for some plain old modified generic bullets. I am thinking the lathe produces a better balanced bullet………at least as of this test. For the gentleman asking about velocities with wads vs. no wads, in group 2 and 3 you can see that the wad had actually created less velocity than (group 3) than no wad. In this particular case my theory is (and part of what I was testing for) that with no wad, the pressure is allowed easy access into the hollow cavity and more easily expanding the bullet giving a better seal which in turn creates more pressure and more velocity? On the other hand, a lot can depend on the bullet being used? Hank uses a lot of Parker bullets which have a .015” wall thickness………much thinner than the Hornady’s. So he can easily get away with no wad and still get a good seal. With the thicker jacketed bullets a wad might be necessary to build pressure. Kyle’s bullet should also be a good candidate for no wads. Lots of stuff we do is not carved in stone and it is necessary for individuals to test for themselves. Hopefully some of the stuff I post will get you in the right ballpark but you will need to fine tune for your rifle and bullet/powder. screen shot windows 7screen capture tool
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Jan 20, 2016 20:31:00 GMT -5
As always Richard good information shared. Thank you for all you do for us guys. Drop
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Post by Kyle on Jan 20, 2016 20:33:08 GMT -5
17 degrees! ouch!!! I see that sometimes a wad might interfere with the bullet getting a good kick to obturate quickly. Richard do you have any data comparing ES's of 325 grain variety with and without wads? Great report!!! Kyle
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Post by itneverends22 on Jan 20, 2016 20:36:55 GMT -5
Richard, Great report, Thanks..
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2016 20:38:08 GMT -5
Cool testing Richard. Wish you would've used more of the Unique.
Don't you guys have a Mr. Heater you can put in your shooting shack??
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Post by hillbill on Jan 20, 2016 20:40:18 GMT -5
interesting stuff Richard, keep at it..
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Post by kbrezlin on Jan 20, 2016 20:56:21 GMT -5
I shot some 300 match hunters a while back with and without wads over 5/60 RedDot/I4198. The groups without wads were about 1.5" and with wads were under 3/4" at 100 yards. Didn't crony but it has to not build enough pressure without the wad to get it to fatten up.
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Post by Richard on Jan 20, 2016 23:17:55 GMT -5
Actually, I have never shot a 325 gr. bullet in my life? Bill brings one of those units that sits on top of a bar-b-que tank. We use it to get the main chill off when we get there and then rely on the electric heaters. The club pays the electric bill---if we use the propane, we have to buy it IF you get the point? With the thicker jacket Hornady bullets I always use a wad. With the base opened up, I think the wad is not necessary as the pressure can get inside and help expand the bullet into the rifling? Just my thought? Rambler.........for the Hornady's, I think (just my opinion) the Clays or RD gives them a harder kick. I would more consider using it with a bullet like Kyle's or the Parkers with the thinner jackets. I wanted to also try a straight charge of 78 gr. 4198 but had my bench gun I needed to work up a load for the new barrel. Note: In the original post I indicated the .015 jacket on the Parker was "thicker" than the Hornady's----------That was a mistake on my part ...It should have read THINNER! Thanks for pointing that out Jims!
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Post by strider on Jan 21, 2016 0:05:51 GMT -5
Richard, I'm the one who was asking about the velocities with and without wads. Your reported findings aren't what I expected but are very interesting and as always very well presented. Thank you for your efforts!
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Post by mike on Jan 21, 2016 1:03:20 GMT -5
As always, very interesting subject matter you decided to research. You are a muzzleloader ballistics scientist! lol I always enjoy reading about your tests. Thank you. Wish I could shoot as much as you do, but work always gets in the way.
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Post by schunter on Jan 21, 2016 8:07:36 GMT -5
Thanks for the report Richard. Always enjoy your testing. Hope to shoot some this weekend again if the ice storm isn't to bad. You will probably get mostly snow.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2016 9:23:21 GMT -5
Actually, I have never shot a 325 gr. bullet in my life? Bill brings one of those units that sits on top of a bar-b-que tank. We use it to get the main chill off when we get there and then rely on the electric heaters. The club pays the electric bill---if we use the propane, we have to buy it IF you get the point? With the thicker jacket Hornady bullets I always use a wad. With the base opened up, I think the wad is not necessary as the pressure can get inside and he;p expand the bullet into the rifling? Just my thought? Rambler.........for the Hornady's, I think (just my opinion) the Clays or RD gives them a harder kick. I would more consider using it with a bullet like Kyle's or the Parkers with the thinner jackets. I wanted to also try a straight charge of 78 gr. 4198 but had my bench gun I needed to work up a load for the new barrel. Note: In the original post I indicated the .015 jacket on the Parker was "thicker" than the Hornady's----------That was a mistake on my part ...It should have read THINNER! Thanks for pointing that out Jims! Yeah, I'd be using the elec. too if it was included in my range fee. Can't find the Clays or Rd here so I'll have to settle on Unique or Blue Dot for my duplexing needs...when this weather breaks that is...sleet and freezing rain right now and no heated shack
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Post by Richard on Jan 21, 2016 14:45:11 GMT -5
Steve, why not just coming up a grain or two more with the BD or Unique? It might achieve the same effect? Mike............see? This is what you have to look forward to when you retire!
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