Post by hillbill on Dec 30, 2023 22:08:14 GMT -5
Most here shoot .45s and this thread mostly pertains to .45 caliber but can also apply to the .40
often guys want to know, what is my best all around hunting load?.
very controversial subject I know but here goes
so far this year I’ve taken 7 critters with smokeless guns
2 yotes, one with .40, one with.45
5 deer, 3 with .40, 2 with.45
i will try to add some pictures just to make a point
The loads used are what I consider very good for where I’m hunting, Mainly Tn, KY & Ohio, others will disagree or they might want something different from their set up.
what do I consider a good load?
glad you asked
To me a good load is
1.a bullet / powder combo that covers the distance I intend to hunt
2. burns clean with minimal fouling
3. makes good speed with very low temp sensitivity and a low es
4.performs well on animals and is very accurate
I feel the loads I use cover all those bases very well
back to the animals taken so far
all are very dead, only 2 deer moved at all and they only went 10 yds each
all were well placed shots so no marginal stuff
first two are yotes
one at 60 yds, one @177
deer were all under 150 yds
as you can see on the ones I took pictures of, some are complete overkill, almost to the point of embarrassed to show the pictures but bear with me
also shown are some groups and I will explain why
I just put together a gun recently.
.45 cal Outcast action with 24" brux
When I weighed powder for this gun I only had some IMR 8208 at the shop and my scales were there too so knowing it works well with the 303 HC I weighed some up
in the pic below is shots 2-4 from a new clean barrel @ 100 yds
the other picture was one week later with a week old load that I loaded the day after I test fired the gun, no brushing, nothing, just loaded it. it was bullet # 8 that I had pushed down the barrel.
The bullets by the way were almost TOO loose after fouling the barrel ( I sized slightly loose accounting for fouling)
As you can see shots 2-4 did what they were supposed to, pretty typical of what these guns do on a regular basis.
The 6.5 holes were from a friends gun he bought for his granddaughter for Christmas he wanted me to zero for him.
While I was there I decided to revisit the MZ
Keep in mind the load had rode around for a week
shot on the left side was the old load, 2 & 3 I just loaded and fired right behind each other, they went in basically the same hole to the right side of the group,
group size was .402 which is not bad BUT nothing outstanding.
That particular load in that gun had an es of 11 with those 3 shots, the last 2 were within 3 fps, keep in mind shot 1 was a week old loaded on a fouled unbrushed bore.
Point is this
My perfect hunting load is ? Likely I might find better but this combo does everything I want it to in the .45 cal with this length barrel and a 10 lb package
Some will say it's overkill? I would agree completely, like shooting a grasshopper with a BB gun, it's simply the nature of the beast.
My .40 cal shown in the picture shoots a load that performs in much the same fashion, no brushing, no beating the bullet down the barrel, just load and shoot even on a days old, fouled barrel.
I post this not to show carnage or to brag about how a gun shoots, simply to show that with some homework it's possible to find a load that works well for the use intended.
Lots of guys come here looking for a gun or a load that will kill T rex at 1000 yds, shoot in the same hole @ 300, is easy to load, carry, and will damage no meat in the process.
As most of you know, said gun or load is a myth, it only exists in our dreams.
But in all reality, there are some very good combos we can use in the guns we have to meet or exceed our realistic expectations.
How do find these loads?
We can ask others what they use? many guys here are more than glad to tell others what works well for them BUT one must keep in mind there are no free lunches in the SML world.
If someone recommends a load it is your duty to make sure it works for your set up, most set ups are different, be it barrel length, temperature, bullet size and the list goes on.
To truly find your best load takes some time and money, everyone knows that bullets and powder are expensive and range time is sometimes hard to come by.
LADDER TESTS
IMO this is the fastest way to find the node for your specific gun.
How does one do a ladder test?
I like the 2 shot method, If possible at 200 yards, if not 100 will do.
One needs access to a good chronograph to record speeds
with a straight edge make a horizontal line on a target, piece of paper or cardboard, I like to use white paper, make horizontal lines every 3-4" for aiming points.
I like to go up in 1 grain increments on my powder charges. start with a fouled warm barrel and fire 2 shot groups recording the speeds on each one, as you go up you will see the groups either open up or close down, when your bullets are in the same hole you have found your node, some combos have 2 nodes, a low and a high.
most loads will have a node every 3-4 grains.
When you think you have found your node you can back up in half grain increments to fine tune it.
Why record speeds? you want your final charge to be in the middle of a node, you will find flat spots in the speeds when you reach a node.
IF one knows his load you can fine tune it to the temperature you will be hunting in.
Shoot in hot weather, shoot the same load in cold weather, find your speed difference, you will almost always find your node will be at a certain speed, the key is to try to keep your speed in the node range.
You might have to go up or down a half grain or grain depending on how much your powder gains or loses with the temperature change.
This is why it's so important to keep good records.
your node will change with barrel length and other factors so don't take for granted that because Mark or Jeff's node is x that yours will be too, not usually the case.
I'm going to say something that might ruffle a few feathers but here goes.
I would be willing to bet that only 10% of the guys that read this have ever taken the time to truly fine tune a load specifically for your gun.
AM I way off by saying this? I hope I am?
I have 2 powders that I use in the .45 with the 303 hard core bullets that I have real confidence in, Benchmark and IMR 8208.
Why do I have confidence in these powders and Kyles' 303s? I have extensively tested them in lots of guns.
I'm not interested in shooting these bullets @ 3000+ FPS, If I were I would choose different powders, I mainly shoot shorter barrels and lighter guns hence the reason I landed on what I have.
Good speed, great accuracy, clean, low temp sensitivity etc.
My speed range is from 2850-2950 from 24" barrels which is plenty fast for what I'm doing, I can still shoot an animal at what I consider very long range and have the confidence the power is there to get the job done.
But again, how do we know these things? It takes range time and use in the field.
What someone else tells us is good information ONLY if we test it ourselves and put it to use.
My .40 load is similar in use, very clean, accurate, speed of 2945 with a 297 Hammer. the powder is RL-16
It took a lot of shooting to land on what I did.
So, what is the point in all this rambling??
Do yourself a favor in 2024 and find the best load for your gun, don't just settle for what someone else says is good, it might be for them? Maybe not for you.
One must decide if you want to find a load you never have to worry about swabbing or brushing between shots? such loads do exist.
In your
case you might find it necessary to do so? I know guys that do, and it works well for them.
I purposely fired that last group to see what my extreme spread would be knowing that I loaded on a crusted barrel, I was pleasantly surprised.
Normally after a range session I will run one dry patch down the bore and have found that gets me where I need to be with cold bore accuracy and speed.
My normal go to load is a 303 with Benchmark, 8208 has proven to be just as clean with very similar accuracy, I haven't really tested it for temp stability but hopefully will get time to do so. speed is very similar per grain, it takes about 3% more to make the same speed BUT different powder lots will likely change that?
We need to see more real world tests with data to back it all up, hopefully in the future I will be able to do some of that stuff.
Some of you guys might think about doing the same, my advice is to keep records every time you shoot, data recorded for future use is always good, unrecorded data is soon forgotten and useless.
the 4198s, N-120, 10x, 322 and others still get the job done very well, that's the neat thing about the .45 cal, it's so versatile with so many different combinations that they are just fun to experiment with.
For the new guys
Don't be afraid to ask guys specifically about what they use, many times it's better to ask by PM.
It's always good to know exactly what set up one has and the intended use before giving advice, that's the reason you don't see many guys post specific load combinations, it's just too easy to be taken out of context.
Happy New Years Guys!
May 2024 be a blessing for all who come here to read and interact.
often guys want to know, what is my best all around hunting load?.
very controversial subject I know but here goes
so far this year I’ve taken 7 critters with smokeless guns
2 yotes, one with .40, one with.45
5 deer, 3 with .40, 2 with.45
i will try to add some pictures just to make a point
The loads used are what I consider very good for where I’m hunting, Mainly Tn, KY & Ohio, others will disagree or they might want something different from their set up.
what do I consider a good load?
glad you asked
To me a good load is
1.a bullet / powder combo that covers the distance I intend to hunt
2. burns clean with minimal fouling
3. makes good speed with very low temp sensitivity and a low es
4.performs well on animals and is very accurate
I feel the loads I use cover all those bases very well
back to the animals taken so far
all are very dead, only 2 deer moved at all and they only went 10 yds each
all were well placed shots so no marginal stuff
first two are yotes
one at 60 yds, one @177
deer were all under 150 yds
as you can see on the ones I took pictures of, some are complete overkill, almost to the point of embarrassed to show the pictures but bear with me
also shown are some groups and I will explain why
I just put together a gun recently.
.45 cal Outcast action with 24" brux
When I weighed powder for this gun I only had some IMR 8208 at the shop and my scales were there too so knowing it works well with the 303 HC I weighed some up
in the pic below is shots 2-4 from a new clean barrel @ 100 yds
the other picture was one week later with a week old load that I loaded the day after I test fired the gun, no brushing, nothing, just loaded it. it was bullet # 8 that I had pushed down the barrel.
The bullets by the way were almost TOO loose after fouling the barrel ( I sized slightly loose accounting for fouling)
As you can see shots 2-4 did what they were supposed to, pretty typical of what these guns do on a regular basis.
The 6.5 holes were from a friends gun he bought for his granddaughter for Christmas he wanted me to zero for him.
While I was there I decided to revisit the MZ
Keep in mind the load had rode around for a week
shot on the left side was the old load, 2 & 3 I just loaded and fired right behind each other, they went in basically the same hole to the right side of the group,
group size was .402 which is not bad BUT nothing outstanding.
That particular load in that gun had an es of 11 with those 3 shots, the last 2 were within 3 fps, keep in mind shot 1 was a week old loaded on a fouled unbrushed bore.
Point is this
My perfect hunting load is ? Likely I might find better but this combo does everything I want it to in the .45 cal with this length barrel and a 10 lb package
Some will say it's overkill? I would agree completely, like shooting a grasshopper with a BB gun, it's simply the nature of the beast.
My .40 cal shown in the picture shoots a load that performs in much the same fashion, no brushing, no beating the bullet down the barrel, just load and shoot even on a days old, fouled barrel.
I post this not to show carnage or to brag about how a gun shoots, simply to show that with some homework it's possible to find a load that works well for the use intended.
Lots of guys come here looking for a gun or a load that will kill T rex at 1000 yds, shoot in the same hole @ 300, is easy to load, carry, and will damage no meat in the process.
As most of you know, said gun or load is a myth, it only exists in our dreams.
But in all reality, there are some very good combos we can use in the guns we have to meet or exceed our realistic expectations.
How do find these loads?
We can ask others what they use? many guys here are more than glad to tell others what works well for them BUT one must keep in mind there are no free lunches in the SML world.
If someone recommends a load it is your duty to make sure it works for your set up, most set ups are different, be it barrel length, temperature, bullet size and the list goes on.
To truly find your best load takes some time and money, everyone knows that bullets and powder are expensive and range time is sometimes hard to come by.
LADDER TESTS
IMO this is the fastest way to find the node for your specific gun.
How does one do a ladder test?
I like the 2 shot method, If possible at 200 yards, if not 100 will do.
One needs access to a good chronograph to record speeds
with a straight edge make a horizontal line on a target, piece of paper or cardboard, I like to use white paper, make horizontal lines every 3-4" for aiming points.
I like to go up in 1 grain increments on my powder charges. start with a fouled warm barrel and fire 2 shot groups recording the speeds on each one, as you go up you will see the groups either open up or close down, when your bullets are in the same hole you have found your node, some combos have 2 nodes, a low and a high.
most loads will have a node every 3-4 grains.
When you think you have found your node you can back up in half grain increments to fine tune it.
Why record speeds? you want your final charge to be in the middle of a node, you will find flat spots in the speeds when you reach a node.
IF one knows his load you can fine tune it to the temperature you will be hunting in.
Shoot in hot weather, shoot the same load in cold weather, find your speed difference, you will almost always find your node will be at a certain speed, the key is to try to keep your speed in the node range.
You might have to go up or down a half grain or grain depending on how much your powder gains or loses with the temperature change.
This is why it's so important to keep good records.
your node will change with barrel length and other factors so don't take for granted that because Mark or Jeff's node is x that yours will be too, not usually the case.
I'm going to say something that might ruffle a few feathers but here goes.
I would be willing to bet that only 10% of the guys that read this have ever taken the time to truly fine tune a load specifically for your gun.
AM I way off by saying this? I hope I am?
I have 2 powders that I use in the .45 with the 303 hard core bullets that I have real confidence in, Benchmark and IMR 8208.
Why do I have confidence in these powders and Kyles' 303s? I have extensively tested them in lots of guns.
I'm not interested in shooting these bullets @ 3000+ FPS, If I were I would choose different powders, I mainly shoot shorter barrels and lighter guns hence the reason I landed on what I have.
Good speed, great accuracy, clean, low temp sensitivity etc.
My speed range is from 2850-2950 from 24" barrels which is plenty fast for what I'm doing, I can still shoot an animal at what I consider very long range and have the confidence the power is there to get the job done.
But again, how do we know these things? It takes range time and use in the field.
What someone else tells us is good information ONLY if we test it ourselves and put it to use.
My .40 load is similar in use, very clean, accurate, speed of 2945 with a 297 Hammer. the powder is RL-16
It took a lot of shooting to land on what I did.
So, what is the point in all this rambling??
Do yourself a favor in 2024 and find the best load for your gun, don't just settle for what someone else says is good, it might be for them? Maybe not for you.
One must decide if you want to find a load you never have to worry about swabbing or brushing between shots? such loads do exist.
In your
case you might find it necessary to do so? I know guys that do, and it works well for them.
I purposely fired that last group to see what my extreme spread would be knowing that I loaded on a crusted barrel, I was pleasantly surprised.
Normally after a range session I will run one dry patch down the bore and have found that gets me where I need to be with cold bore accuracy and speed.
My normal go to load is a 303 with Benchmark, 8208 has proven to be just as clean with very similar accuracy, I haven't really tested it for temp stability but hopefully will get time to do so. speed is very similar per grain, it takes about 3% more to make the same speed BUT different powder lots will likely change that?
We need to see more real world tests with data to back it all up, hopefully in the future I will be able to do some of that stuff.
Some of you guys might think about doing the same, my advice is to keep records every time you shoot, data recorded for future use is always good, unrecorded data is soon forgotten and useless.
the 4198s, N-120, 10x, 322 and others still get the job done very well, that's the neat thing about the .45 cal, it's so versatile with so many different combinations that they are just fun to experiment with.
For the new guys
Don't be afraid to ask guys specifically about what they use, many times it's better to ask by PM.
It's always good to know exactly what set up one has and the intended use before giving advice, that's the reason you don't see many guys post specific load combinations, it's just too easy to be taken out of context.
Happy New Years Guys!
May 2024 be a blessing for all who come here to read and interact.
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