|
|
Post by bobyote on Dec 10, 2023 16:54:32 GMT -5
The issue with sizing for me comes down to I’ve never had one slide down the tube. It still took good force to push the bullet down and I still got a squib/misfure/ checked all primers and powder - cleaned everything. It just doesn’t make any sense. I’ve never been able to push a bullet down with one or two fingers. I’ve had to have a full hand grip and push down..
|
|
|
|
Post by dennis on Dec 10, 2023 17:19:13 GMT -5
I would try any (new) lrp or lrmp primers first. Also are you calling a misfire a squib or is it a weak firing.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobyote on Dec 10, 2023 17:28:15 GMT -5
If the bullet only gets to the end of the barrel after pulling the trigger or barely pops out about 10 feet it’s a squib right? Do that is what’s happening. Thank all of you for the help.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kyle on Dec 10, 2023 17:44:02 GMT -5
Take a bullet and place it on a table point up and base down. Use the same ramrod and jag you are loading with and push straight down on the bullet with the same force you are loading/seating your bullet with. Lift up - if the bullet lifts off of the table this could be your problem.
|
|
|
|
Post by yoderjac on Dec 10, 2023 18:45:16 GMT -5
If the bullet only gets to the end of the barrel after pulling the trigger or barely pops out about 10 feet it’s a squib right? Do that is what’s happening. Thank all of you for the help. That makes me suspect the powder even more. I would expect a primer that fires to produce enough force to push a bullet partway or slightly out of the barrel with no powder. When you think about it, there are 2 main possibilities. One is that you are not producing a full explosion, and two is that that expanding gas is escaping somewhere. If it is not escaping around the bullet, that leaves the breech end. Squib traditionally refers to a center fire shell that accidently received a reduced powder charge. I guess it is the same functional result with a muzzleloader. So, if the primer is firing every time and pushing the bullet down the barrel, I would guess that it probably firing enough that it should ignite good powder. From a safety perspective, you might want to have a pro examine the breach plug in case you are missing something. If you are sure the breach end is good, I'm less concerned about injury. You could try finding a different source for each component and change them one by one. Borrow a few primers of a different brand from a friend. Borrow a few ounces of the same powder from someone whose muzzleloader is firing dependably. Do the same with a few bullets. Swapping each of these out should eliminate it as the problem if you continue to get the same results. |
|
|
|
Post by ballistic on Dec 10, 2023 20:13:08 GMT -5
Something is missing here.
Spark + Powder + Bullet = BOOM !
Squib fires (as described) tell us the primer is igniting some of the powder if the bullet is found 10 feet away on the ground. A really weak primer could be the cause still.
The powder needs pressure to fully ignite. 4198 doesn’t need a lot of pressure. I’ve had bullets wobble/fall on it and it still ignited (speeds were slower but not a squib.
The bullet needs to have enough resistance to create some pressure. Obturation helps create the seal. That’s why so many on here are using pitmans - they do this really well. That’s why your issue is hard to understand…….
|
|
|
|
Post by bobyote on Dec 10, 2023 20:32:07 GMT -5
Yes I still don’t understand… I tested the ramrod on the bullet on the table and it comes off smooth without catching. It doesn’t make any sense that all of my powder is from same bottle and primers are from same box.. unfortunately I am the only person I know that is doing this so there is no one to trade or try different components. I’m very disappointed and don’t want to put anymore $ into something I don’t trust to go bang when I pull the trigger.. it may be blasphemy on this sight but I’m looking into a nitro fire to some degree..
|
|
|
|
Post by lbahunter on Dec 10, 2023 21:54:51 GMT -5
Yes I still don’t understand… I tested the ramrod on the bullet on the table and it comes off smooth without catching. It doesn’t make any sense that all of my powder is from same bottle and primers are from same box.. unfortunately I am the only person I know that is doing this so there is no one to trade or try different components. I’m very disappointed and don’t want to put anymore $ into something I don’t trust to go bang when I pull the trigger.. it may be blasphemy on this sight but I’m looking into a nitro fire to some degree.. I predict a good deal on a used CVA Scout conversion pretty soon.... |
|
|
|
Post by lakeplainshunter on Dec 11, 2023 4:24:02 GMT -5
Where are you located? Maybe there is a member near you that can help you out.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobyote on Dec 11, 2023 7:27:02 GMT -5
I live in Columbia TN
|
|
|
|
Post by SURESHOT on Dec 11, 2023 7:30:47 GMT -5
Yes I still don’t understand… I tested the ramrod on the bullet on the table and it comes off smooth without catching. It doesn’t make any sense that all of my powder is from same bottle and primers are from same box.. unfortunately I am the only person I know that is doing this so there is no one to trade or try different components. I’m very disappointed and don’t want to put anymore $ into something I don’t trust to go bang when I pull the trigger.. it may be blasphemy on this sight but I’m looking into a nitro fire to some degree.. With the NITRO FIRE a friend here thought it was the best thing and just refusing to buy a CVA SCOUT V2 conversion due to he thinks he knows it ALL, First year with a few firings better than slice bread bullets touching,, This year 10 inch pie plate would not catch the bullet, |
|
|
|
Post by buckeye68 on Dec 11, 2023 8:06:53 GMT -5
If nobody is close to you and in a last ditch effort, remove your scope and pack your gun, bullets and modules and ship it to myself and I’ll find out what the issue is.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobyote on Dec 11, 2023 9:28:30 GMT -5
Thank you buckeye, I’m going to try to resize my bullets I think but if that doesn’t work…
As for the nitro fire, was it really that bad after one year!!?!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by bobyote on Dec 11, 2023 9:30:40 GMT -5
I just want to have confidence in the tool
I’m bringing to the field. I can say accuracy is better then most of my center fire rifles, and those Pittman bullets with the power the scout delivers drops a deer in its tracks.. so I’d hate to give up when it could be something simple.. thanks for all of the tips..
|
|
|
|
Post by dennis on Dec 11, 2023 9:52:26 GMT -5
If nobody is close to you and in a last ditch effort, remove your scope and pack your gun, bullets and modules and ship it to myself and I’ll find out what the issue is. Very generous offer, I would certainly do it if I needed.👍 |
|
|
|
Post by SURESHOT on Dec 11, 2023 10:52:23 GMT -5
Thank you buckeye, I’m going to try to resize my bullets I think but if that doesn’t work… As for the nitro fire, was it really that bad after one year!!?!!! Both the owner and a friend told me of the dealings with the NITRO fire, back to sabots and barrel cleaning to keep accuracy... with this gun. I have a couple question when you dry fire with just the primer is it a loud pop, blowing smoke out the barrel, pointed at a safe direction, I am sure you have the bullet all the way down on the powder charge? and is the barrel dry ? with that being asked, you have a good offer from Buckeye, The conversion, did you do it or a builder, and if a builder have you contacted him/her hope it works out,,, |
|
|
|
Post by Hank on Dec 11, 2023 11:00:07 GMT -5
Thank you buckeye, I’m going to try to resize my bullets I think but if that doesn’t work… As for the nitro fire, was it really that bad after one year!!?!!! Both the owner and a friend told me of the dealings with the NITRO fire, back to sabots and barrel cleaning to keep accuracy... with this gun. I have a couple question when you dry fire with just the primer is it a loud pop, blowing smoke out the barrel, pointed at a safe direction, I am sure you have the bullet all the way down on the powder charge? and is the barrel dry ? with that being asked, you have a good offer from Buckeye, The conversion, did you do it or a builder, and if a builder have you contacted him/her hope it works out,,, Yes, A builder did the conversion, yes he has contacted me via email, I have told him the problem is bullets are too loose and or he is pulling them up off the powder charge. This is the only thing that will cause a mis-fire, Squib load, other than wet powder or primers. That I know of. |
|
|
|
Post by bobyote on Dec 11, 2023 11:11:04 GMT -5
Yes have been in contact with builder and no complaints there, they’ve been very helpful as well!
|
|
|
|
Post by yoderjac on Dec 11, 2023 12:53:06 GMT -5
Back when I was shooting a smoke pole, I had a real safety issue occur. I'm a Hunter Education instructor and was always taught, and we continued to teach, folks to handle a misfire by replacing the cap (or 209 primer) and trying again. We no longer teach that after my safety issue.
I had a misfire and did what I was taught replacing the 209 primer and trying again. Fortunately the propellent did not ignite the second time either. I was using pellets and they had picked up enough moisture so the did not ignite. When I got back to camp and removed the breach plug, I tried to use the ramrod to push out the pellets. It went 6" down the barrel and stopped.
The pellets have a channel in the middle. The 209 primer produced enough pressure to push the sabot and bullet most of the way down the barrel. Had there been less moisture in the powder and the pellets ignited the second time, I would have had a barrel obstruction issue.
The relevant point here is that a shotgun primer created enough pressure alone to push that bullet almost out of the barrel. I would suspect a LRP or MRP may create enough pressure to push the bullet out of the barrel depending on the fit. So, it is quite possible that if the bullet is not seated well enough to compress the 4198 that only a portion of it is igniting, but it is also possible that the powder picked up moisture and is not igniting at all.
But, I would think you could hear the difference in the "bang" between just a primer and some of the powder infighting.
I don't have the experience with SMLs that many of the other posters do. It is very nice to see that some of the more experienced guys are willing to help you out if you can't figure it out yourself.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobyote on Dec 12, 2023 21:59:26 GMT -5
So a solution I am going to try is with a sabot - can you use the shockwave muzzle brake for a .402 bullet with a light blue sabot?
|
|
