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Post by doulos on Jan 15, 2016 11:05:58 GMT -5
Being a greenhorn to to this world of sml. I have a question that might seem dumb and maybe even offensive to some but here goes. Why such high velocity loads for hunting? I understand the desire to have long range capabilities. But the destruction on deer at closer ranges is almost unbelievable to me. Im actually sort of stunned by it. Ive never seen anything like some of the harvest pictures Ive seen here and elsewhere .
Most people seem to be using loads north of 65 grains IMR4198 with 275 -300 grain bullets with velocities over 2800fps. Thats a lot of energy for whitetails. Makes a .308 seem like a pipsqueak.
My question is does accuracy fall off at lighter charges because of less obturation of the bullet? Do a lot of these higher b.c. bullets ( parkers, pitmans etc.) have to be driven that hard. Is it harder to find bullets like these that will perform at lower velocities in sabot less guns so as not to waste to much meat? Im sure the pistol bullets will obturate at lower velocities. But most here seem to use the spire point type for longer range capabilities and kicking them hard.
And no ,Im not feeling sorry for bambi or worried about PETA, but I like to eat these deer.
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Post by fishhawk on Jan 15, 2016 12:10:07 GMT -5
When hunting my property I never know if my shot is 20yds or 400yds, so I like to keep my velocity high. You have three choices, shoot them in the shoulder and likely ruin meat, shoot them only through the ribs broadside, or use all copper bullets. most bullets will shoot well at lower velocities, but I like the speed to be there if needed. One other issue is the bc of lighter pistol type bullets. The drop can be easily handled with a rangefinder and known drop at that range, but the wind drift is very hard to deal with at 300+yds not knowing exactly what the wind is doing between you and the deer
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Post by linebaugh on Jan 15, 2016 12:33:12 GMT -5
Shoot them through the ribs. Most people don't eat ribs. Not every shot ends in an explosion either, just some of them. All three does I shot this year were through the ribs and all three had about 2-3" exits. No meat was harmed in the killing of said deer. Lol.
I will agree with you in that some of the pictures I have seen look like these things are being hit with Ballistic tip 50 BMG rounds. I have yet to have this happen myself but I don't shoot 300gr bullets at 3,000 fps.
As far as obturation you could go with full form and shoot some very reduced loads with good accuracy. I put a load together for my daughter this season with a 275 BE and 45gr of 4198... shot excellent so they must obturate.
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Post by schunter on Jan 15, 2016 12:42:55 GMT -5
Shoot them through the ribs. Most people don't eat ribs. Not every shot ends in an explosion either, just some of them. All three does I shot this year were through the ribs and all three had about 2-3" exits. No meat was harmed in the killing of said deer. Lol. I will agree with you in that some of the pictures I have seen look like these things are being hit with Ballistic tip 50 BMG rounds. I have yet to have this happen myself but I don't shoot 300gr bullets at 3,000 fps. As far as obturation you could go with full form and shoot some very reduced loads with good accuracy. I put a load together for my daughter this season with a 275 BE and 45gr of 4198... shot excellent so they must obturate. No meat was harmed in the killing of said deer. That is funny! What is the speed of the 45gr load? |
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Post by jaymiller5 on Jan 15, 2016 12:47:46 GMT -5
I shoot Parker 270g EMax over 65g of H4198 at 2575fps according to my chrony. Will be checking that against my magnetospeed i just got.
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Post by linebaugh on Jan 15, 2016 13:00:29 GMT -5
Schunter,
I really do not know the velocity It was a last minute thing. I know she got scope eye on the first shot so I need to go lower yet. I don't know if you can get them to obturate much below that??? I do know that load shot about an inch in a bergara apex. I was really surprised.
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Post by speedrackin on Jan 15, 2016 13:51:31 GMT -5
Yes these SML do send some heavy bullets down range well beyond what a 308 can do . The spinning of desired bullet i believe has to do more with long range accuracy ? And to get that accuracy speed is required ? I mite be understanding it wrong . as far as ruining meat .... you dont get very much out of the shoulders anyways on an average whitetail ive thrown shoulders away from a 243 , kill . So when faced with a meat Doe in front of you bullet placement is necessary but when that buck of a lifetime is there and i want him DRT im not going to worry about loosin the front shoulder to the coyote bait pile . This is just my opinion , not thrown stones here at all . There definitely is somethin about loading that weapon from the front. Most people look at me in the rifle season and just dont agree but when they see the results of a 200 yrd shot and realize it was done with a muzzle loader now there interested. OR the first comment is you only have one shot ....... that's all that's needed .
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Post by keith on Jan 15, 2016 14:51:47 GMT -5
I still do not believe that a .452 obturates to completely fill a .458 groove no matter how much that concept is pushed here and will not until one is recovered and measured at .458 diameter. I have not always shot super heavy loads and have gotten really good accuracy with MH bullets as slow as 2400fps in a 1-24" twist; granted that was FF in a .451 barrel.
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Post by Richard on Jan 15, 2016 15:08:45 GMT -5
I think Keith is right! As long as the bullet swells enough to engage the rifling to some degree, it will spin the bullet and accuracy will be there..........that is why smooth sized bullets with the right load will generally shoot just as accurate as a full formed bullet without all the hassle involved in "indexing!" I like the idea of a wad under the bullet when smooth sized so the fiber will short of stuff the groves and prevent pressure leakage. Some seem to do well with no wad? What ever works for your set up is what to use.
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gar
Junior Member
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Post by gar on Jan 15, 2016 15:57:11 GMT -5
Some time ago I shot loads as light as 42 gr. I4198 in ten degree temps. and accuracy was there with a 275 BE. so obturation not a problem. Load and shoot for lower vel. if that is what you want, the accuracy will still be there.
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Post by itneverends22 on Jan 15, 2016 17:35:35 GMT -5
guys, somewhere on the board,
jeff made a video on his new plug (H I S), and on that video he filled up the plug,with 12 grs 4198, I don't remember the bullet he used, anyways he shot, and it was 618 fps.. with just 12 grs..
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Post by linebaugh on Jan 15, 2016 18:18:18 GMT -5
I still do not believe that a .452 obturates to completely fill a .458 groove no matter how much that concept is pushed here and will not until one is recovered and measured at .458 diameter. I have not always shot super heavy loads and have gotten really good accuracy with MH bullets as slow as 2400fps in a 1-24" twist; granted that was FF in a .451 barrel. I tend to agree but in a slightly different manner. Some of the bullets I have seen recovered seem to obturate more at the base and less toward the nose. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2016 22:01:38 GMT -5
Head shootem like Jeff does...no meat harmed and dead deer laying in its tracks...Imo if you have a racecar, drive it as fast as you possibly can....Reduced loads work good saboted because you are not pushing it's blowing out threshold,they will kill deer well also...The sabotless game has/is explored by many here to push the limits of downrange energy and range....
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Post by YankeeReb on Jan 21, 2016 13:07:49 GMT -5
Being a greenhorn to to this world of sml. I have a question that might seem dumb and maybe even offensive to some but here goes. Why such high velocity loads for hunting? I understand the desire to have long range capabilities. But the destruction on deer at closer ranges is almost unbelievable to me. Im actually sort of stunned by it. Ive never seen anything like some of the harvest pictures Ive seen here and elsewhere . Most people seem to be using loads north of 65 grains IMR4198 with 275 -300 grain bullets with velocities over 2800fps. Thats a lot of energy for whitetails. Makes a .308 seem like a pipsqueak. My question is does accuracy fall off at lighter charges because of less obturation of the bullet? Do a lot of these higher b.c. bullets ( parkers, pitmans etc.) have to be driven that hard. Is it harder to find bullets like these that will perform at lower velocities in sabot less guns so as not to waste to much meat? Im sure the pistol bullets will obturate at lower velocities. But most here seem to use the spire point type for longer range capabilities and kicking them hard. And no ,Im not feeling sorry for bambi or worried about PETA, but I like to eat these deer. I'm with you some of the shot deer pics on sml forums look like they been shot with grenade launchers! I got plenty of meat off the front shoulders of my deer and wouldn't want to waste any of it. If you want good obturation and accuracy with slower speeds use a smaller amount of a fast burning powder. |
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153
Junior Member
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Post by 153 on Jan 21, 2016 16:59:19 GMT -5
I have no problem leaving big holes in deer. Bigger = dead quicker. I really like DRT. Accuracy is most important to me. Been shooting a .45 with the 195 Barnes in a sabot. Just got a smooth die from Luke and will be trying sabot less this year. Gonna try the 250MZ Barnes, 250 TEZ Barnes, 250 SST Bonded and the 275BE. What ever shoots the most accurate will be what I hunt with next fall. Most all my shots will be within 250 yards with most less than 100. Still like to keep the speed up without killing on both ends. Hope to get the above load to around 2400-2500 fps.
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