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Post by sew on Nov 5, 2023 8:21:52 GMT -5
My 40s (3) are only for hunting. 350 yards max but normally <250. I don’t want overkill. I’m shooting DI, 228s & 253s in the ultralite and DI & 278s in the heavy Rem/Rock Creek. Fouling has been a problem. I think I have been shooting too slow of a powder with not enough pressure. When shooting 195g (Sav/PN 40) and only 228 & 278 in the light and heavy 40s and at 2700-2850 speeds, I’ve found that H322 and H4895, respectively, have led to fairly quick fouling. Brushing between shots, uneven, jerky loading, poor consistency.
So, my answer, right or wrong, is coming up with higher pressured loads using VV120/200SST/195B in 209 ignited Sav, VV130/228 in Ultralite and VV530/278 in heavy Rem/Rock Creek. Calculated QL pressures are 45K, 53K and 55K respectively. FWIW, I do not think we reach calculated peak pressure with smokeless MLers. Testing after church today.
Suggestions are appreciated.
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mitch
Junior Member
Posts: 90
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Post by mitch on Nov 5, 2023 9:17:12 GMT -5
Following
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Post by lakeplainshunter on Nov 5, 2023 11:05:32 GMT -5
I am interested in what you come up with for the 209 gun.
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Post by sew on Nov 5, 2023 13:11:36 GMT -5
I’ll report.
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Post by sew on Nov 6, 2023 9:17:06 GMT -5
The 209 , 26” PN 10ML2, 195B, Maine WW, CCIm . ~2,750. 2” hi, 100, 6” low 200. 54g VV120. Very clean, calculated pressure ~45K.
Ultralite (24” barrel) . DI. 72 VV130, 228 AM, very clean burn, low fouling. Sub 1/2MOA thru 300 yds. Calculated pressure 53K.
Hvy Rem/Rock Creek. DI 71g VV530, 278g AM, very clean burn. Well sub 1/2 MOA thru 300 yds. Calculated pressure 55K.
Due to time of day and lighting, the velocity of the Sav was repeatable and assumed accurate. Not so with the other 2. Especially with the fact that the 228 had a flatter trajectory than the 278 even though the predicted velocity of the higher BC’d 278 was >100’/sec faster than the 228.
These loads may not be safe in any other rifles, or even mine. So, they’re not recommendations at all. The VV powders are far cleaner burning than H322 in the UL and H4895 in the heavy rifle.
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Post by ballistic on Nov 6, 2023 9:51:58 GMT -5
1-
I don’t believe QL is 100% correct for pressure estimates because some of the data for my loads is showing 65k pressure. I have added more powder(than my direct was using) and used the (weaker jmo) asg plug and module (for testing) and it didn’t expand the primer pockets. Primers were flat though…….
2-
My testing with 275-325 grain bullets has shown that pushing speeds higher (more pressure close to 63-65k) has yielded a much cleaner bore. I have 2 different powder combos that do not need any brushing between shots unless humidity is above 65% and more than 10 minutes goes by between reloading. If humidity is low time to reload can be the next day.
3-
I enlarged my powder chamber to 98% of my max load (325 bullets) and speeds went up and primer pressure signs went down. This is good and bad. The large powder chamber will not allow faster powders with lighter bullets.
4-
I recommend you shoot with some type of chrony and increase powder slowly. When you see your speeds jump a lot when adding 1 grain of powder - it will tell you you’re getting into pressure or are on the edge. Back off at least 5 grains.
5- Best wishes. Be careful and keep us posted.
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Post by sew on Nov 6, 2023 13:43:38 GMT -5
I always shoot with a crony , but in the low light of late evening, it seemed inaccurate.
I’m convinced that the lack of throat engraving greatly reduces peak pressure. However, with a complete burn, the velocity is very close to predicted. FWIW, after getting my QL calculation, I then reduce the barrel length on the QL input 2” to see if I’m still at 99-100% burn. If not, I modify as necessary.
After this deer season, I intend to go higher on my calculated pressures on my 2 modern 40s.
I need to get my Lab Radar going.
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mitch
Junior Member
Posts: 90
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Post by mitch on Nov 6, 2023 19:19:14 GMT -5
Man I can’t wait to start running a strain gauge setup and generating some data
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mitch
Junior Member
Posts: 90
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Post by mitch on Nov 7, 2023 6:26:41 GMT -5
SEW,
How do you run duplex loads in QL?
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Post by sew on Nov 7, 2023 23:01:42 GMT -5
SEW, How do you run duplex loads in QL? I don’t. But have come up with equal speed single powder loads with the same wt as the total duplex load and figured that the pressures might be in the same neighborhood. Ex: if a 6/65 VV110/Vgt load gave 2800’/sec then I try to find a 70g powder load that gave about the same speed and look at that pressure. Accurate way -?? Yes Pressure Trace would be nice. |
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Post by educatedidiot on Nov 8, 2023 17:57:14 GMT -5
I haven't had the PT equipment out since I traced the ones I posted in the 40 cal PT forum. As a matter of fact, just a week or so ago I had my 40cal bench gun out of the safe and noticed the strain gage coming off the barrel. It had gotten to the point that I could manipulate QL to accurately predict chamber pressure within 1kpsi of the strain gage measurement.
There are some powders that will actually clean up at the high end, one being Varget. When Kyle and I tested the original Accumax 225's, I was able to hit 3 different nodes with one powder. Id have to look but it was either imr3031 or varget. The highest node was 3400fps. I tend to stay with a 300gr or heavier bullet. My 20"bbl Shorty Forty shoots a 300 Aeromax over 83gr of imr4166 and a dry wool wad. It loads the same everytime. Haven't cleaned it in a few years. Reloder 16 is another good one for 300 and 325's
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Post by sew on Nov 8, 2023 18:04:48 GMT -5
Of course, a # of us, at least me, are interested in those manipulations.
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Post by educatedidiot on Nov 8, 2023 19:14:44 GMT -5
Of course, a # of us, at least me, are interested in those manipulations. I'll try to get a tutorial together over the weekend. |
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yule
New Member
Posts: 26 
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Post by yule on Nov 9, 2023 7:51:02 GMT -5
Just a FYI for what is working for me. I am shooting one of Jeff's prefit 40's on a 700 CF action. HIS with Fed 215 LRMP
Duplex of 8.5 gr SR4759 and 61.5 gr of Varget
250 gr Match Hunter w/ wool wad
2722 fps with very low ES.
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Post by ballistic on Dec 3, 2023 14:19:47 GMT -5
Here’s a few pics using some large doses of (blackhorn 209) powder that would normally be fine in a .45 muzzy. But in a .40 the pressure curve changes dramatically. Yes that’s the head of a direct ignition breechplug and the experienced shooter backed off the powder charge 15 grains from the charge used in the modules. This muzzy was built with a 1.25” shank and luckily there wasn’t an injury. After getting the stuck and broken plug removed from the barrel - it was put back together and everything is fine. Anyway - pressure is a crazy animal that can be found by adding a few grains of powder and there it is. And be extra cautious with blackhorn 209 powder in any muzzleloader with smaller calibers generating more pressure. FYI -the load used would be considered a magnum load by weight (120 grains) for todays 50 caliber inlines Be carful !  |
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Post by thelefthand on Jun 5, 2024 7:56:17 GMT -5
Following. Thanks for the work you are doing!
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Post by dennis on Jun 5, 2024 11:13:30 GMT -5
Good wakeup call ballistic 👍
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