grizz
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by grizz on May 4, 2023 17:09:39 GMT -5
Wondering what everyone’s experience is with muzzle velocity. From what I’ve seen so far with my new build it seems slow compared to others I’ve read about. My gun is mesa ml action, 26” brux modified sendero. Hankins HIS ignition with fed match mag primers. My understanding is 78gr of 4198 should see around 2900 with 275 Pittman, I’m getting 2800. Also, kyles load of 92gr benchmark with 300 Pittman should see 2950 ish, I’m getting 2815. Both seem low but I’m new to this gun. Any ideas?
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Post by yoderjac on May 4, 2023 18:09:58 GMT -5
100 fps does not seem all that unreasonable to me as a gun to gun variance. Just for context, the small rifle primer testing resulted in a 30 - 70 fps loss.
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Post by drinkwaj280 on May 4, 2023 23:54:12 GMT -5
There can be significant velocity swings from the same load when used by different shooters. For example I shot 78gn of IMR4198 and got an avg velocity of 3016fps. This was in 75*F and 70% humidity. I think you need to keep several factors in mind when comparing your velocity to others shooting the same loads. The first is loading routine, powder sensitivity to temperature,powder consistency(lot to lot), accuracy of chronograph and differences in environmental conditions. How much does loading routine play I couldn't say for sure. I have seen significant differences on the range when shooting through a chronograph and the only thing I can figure was maybe I compressed the powder a little further with the bullet. Next some powders are better suited for temperature swings than others. A lot of us use IMR 4198 for hunting and shooting but it isn't the most temp stable powder on the market. It does very well for me as a year round powder but I prefer other powders when appropriate like VV N120(275gn) or RL 10x(303HC). Also, there can be variation in consistency from lot to lot with same powder. Richard did a detailed post on this very subject a while back. You should look it up and read it quite interesting. The equipment being used to measure velocity between yourself and the person reporting their velocity could be a factor. I use a digital chronograph, nothing fancy or expensive but if your using a Lab Radar I expect your numbers to be more accurate. At least I hope they are considering the price difference. Finally, environmental conditions of the shooter is probaly the biggest variable. If my velocity is based on say 75*F 80% humidity at 400ft elevation and your shooting at 45*F and 50% humidity at 5000ft I would expect some significant difference. If you add all these factors together not only can you see variation in your gun shooting the same load but possibly even more variation in velocity with someone else shooting the same load as you. If you are getting consistent velocity, accuracy and ignition with your gun I wouldn't get to hung up on what others are getting compared to you. Unless its so far off the mark it brings into question a major issue with your equipment which doesn't seem to be the case.
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grizz
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by grizz on May 5, 2023 2:02:50 GMT -5
There can be significant velocity swings from the same load when used by different shooters. For example I shot 78gn of IMR4198 and got an avg velocity of 3016fps. This was in 75*F and 70% humidity. I think you need to keep several factors in mind when comparing your velocity to others shooting the same loads. The first is loading routine, powder sensitivity to temperature,powder consistency(lot to lot), accuracy of chronograph and differences in environmental conditions. How much does loading routine play I couldn't say for sure. I have seen significant differences on the range when shooting through a chronograph and the only thing I can figure was maybe I compressed the powder a little further with the bullet. Next some powders are better suited for temperature swings than others. A lot of us use IMR 4198 for hunting and shooting but it isn't the most temp stable powder on the market. It does very well for me as a year round powder but I prefer other powders when appropriate like VV N120(275gn) or RL 10x(303HC). Also, there can be variation in consistency from lot to lot with same powder. Richard did a detailed post on this very subject a while back. You should look it up and read it quite interesting. The equipment being used to measure velocity between yourself and the person reporting their velocity could be a factor. I use a digital chronograph, nothing fancy or expensive but if your using a Lab Radar I expect your numbers to be more accurate. At least I hope they are considering the price difference. Finally, environmental conditions of the shooter is probaly the biggest variable. If my velocity is based on say 75*F 80% humidity at 400ft elevation and your shooting at 45*F and 50% humidity at 5000ft I would expect some significant difference. If you add all these factors together not only can you see variation in your gun shooting the same load but possibly even more variation in velocity with someone else shooting the same load as you. If you are getting consistent velocity, accuracy and ignition with your gun I wouldn't get to hung up on what others are getting compared to you. Unless its so far off the mark it brings into question a major issue with your equipment which doesn't seem to be the case. In this particular case with the 4198 load, my buddy shot his 3 weeks ago. Colder outside, same barrel length, same range so same elevation, my chrono which is a bullet seeker doppler, same bullet, he is 100 fps faster. Just seems odd to me. What charge of 10x with the 303hc?
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Post by Sideshow on May 5, 2023 2:40:08 GMT -5
You do realize even in the cf world usually after about 200 rounds many times a barrel speeds up ?? This is pretty well known to the guys that shoot competitively in cf ?? Give it awhile ....
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grizz
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by grizz on May 5, 2023 3:34:25 GMT -5
You do realize even in the cf world usually after about 200 rounds many times a barrel speeds up ?? This is pretty well known to the guys that shoot competitively in cf ?? Give it awhile .... I do realize that however, a friend shooting the same gun/load is 100 fps faster as well and his gun is new also. I just find it odd. I upgraded from a prefit barrel nut gun to this one for the velocity increase for distance. At 2800 I’m only 80 fps faster than that gun with 10gr less powder. 🤷♂️
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Post by drinkwaj280 on May 5, 2023 6:38:22 GMT -5
I shoot 88gn of 10x with the 303HC and get an average of 2966fps in 55*F. This load does well and maintains consistent velocity across the temperatures I hunt in VA. The first week of muzzleloader season it was pushing 80*F. Then the last week was in the 30's*F. While this was an extreme situation for early November I was covered. The stability of 10x allowed me take a a deer with this load at 500 yds this past season. I shoot a M700 with 1.25"x5" shank, HIS, 26" Brux and muzzle brake. This is a max load for my gun and may not be safe in yours. Start low and work your way up.
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Post by ballistic on May 5, 2023 12:33:57 GMT -5
Wondering what everyone’s experience is with muzzle velocity. From what I’ve seen so far with my new build it seems slow compared to others I’ve read about. My gun is mesa ml action, 26” brux modified sendero. Hankins HIS ignition with fed match mag primers. My understanding is 78gr of 4198 should see around 2900 with 275 Pittman, I’m getting 2800. Also, kyles load of 92gr benchmark with 300 Pittman should see 2950 ish, I’m getting 2815. Both seem low but I’m new to this gun. Any ideas? With powders from 4198 to 4895 and even slower powders like varget (for muzzleloaders use only) 5 grains of powder will raise speeds by 100 fps - 1 grain =20 fps. Be cautious and work your way up slowly. Pressure can change that 5 grain rule really fast. It’s not odd at all to have 2 identical guns shoot 100 fps difference in speeds. I built 3 identical rifle barrels a few years back. 2 shot the same speed and 1 was 250 fps slower. The slower rifle ended up needing a faster powder and ended up being the best shooter of the 3. Use the info on this board as a guideline. Start low and work your way up. If you loose 100 fps velocity but it’s accurate and holds single digit deviation - I would take that over the faster gun that doesn’t -all day long. In past steel matches - the guys shooting at 3200 fps compared to my 2950 - never scared me. At 1st I was intimidated. My slower speeds were also easier on my shoulder and my barrel didn’t get nearly as hot as the faster competitors. I wouldn’t be too concerned.
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Post by Sideshow on May 5, 2023 12:44:20 GMT -5
You do realize even in the cf world usually after about 200 rounds many times a barrel speeds up ?? This is pretty well known to the guys that shoot competitively in cf ?? Give it awhile .... I do realize that however, a friend shooting the same gun/load is 100 fps faster as well and his gun is new also. I just find it odd. I upgraded from a prefit barrel nut gun to this one for the velocity increase for distance. At 2800 I’m only 80 fps faster than that gun with 10gr less powder. 🤷♂️ Lots of new barrels have velocity swings when new or not . Even if they were made one after the other . Id be far more concerned if its accuracy was bad !!! While you may find this odd its not that unusual either . It is what it is . Put more rounds thru it or maybe polish it up with some bore paste if you want to try that . Try your buddys powder and primers . Swap bp . Check bushing sizes . I use 50cal wool wads in my 45 . Try a veggie wad or a poly wad . Even let your buddy size the bullet and load it . If you get pro-active you may figure something out ??
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Post by hillbill on May 5, 2023 16:18:47 GMT -5
Differing powder lots = different speeds, lots of variables can cause 100 fps as has been discussed. Find the node for your gun and don't fret over the speed so much, most powders have 2 nodes before getting over pressure. Do a ladder test and let your gun tell you what it likes. We often put too much emphasis on speed when in reality we should be chasing accuracy and consistency. Yes you might be on the slow side but I will bet you can find a spot where it's super accurate with acceptable speed, it takes some time and testing to get there.
Most of these .45s don't require wads with fairly stiff loads, I have found overall better accuracy in most guns without them but it never hurts to try.
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Post by booner22 on May 5, 2023 20:35:35 GMT -5
Wondering what everyone’s experience is with muzzle velocity. From what I’ve seen so far with my new build it seems slow compared to others I’ve read about. My gun is mesa ml action, 26” brux modified sendero. Hankins HIS ignition with fed match mag primers. My understanding is 78gr of 4198 should see around 2900 with 275 Pittman, I’m getting 2800. Also, kyles load of 92gr benchmark with 300 Pittman should see 2950 ish, I’m getting 2815. Both seem low but I’m new to this gun. Any ideas? 92 gr of benchmark in my 25in barrel asg ignition was 2950. Aside from all the variability mentioned any chance your chrono is off?
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Post by Richard on May 5, 2023 22:18:45 GMT -5
Keep in mind that most of my shooting/testing has been done with a 30" Brux and Direct Ignition. The HIS system will always be at least 50 fps slower.
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Post by hillbill on May 6, 2023 6:57:13 GMT -5
92 grains of Benchmark from a 26” barrel with a 300 netted 2940 on avg with several different barrels 2915 avg from a 24” Also several barrels All with HIS ignition. CCI mag primers. .035 bushing
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grizz
New Member
Posts: 14
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Velocity
May 7, 2023 15:17:08 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by grizz on May 7, 2023 15:17:08 GMT -5
Wondering what everyone’s experience is with muzzle velocity. From what I’ve seen so far with my new build it seems slow compared to others I’ve read about. My gun is mesa ml action, 26” brux modified sendero. Hankins HIS ignition with fed match mag primers. My understanding is 78gr of 4198 should see around 2900 with 275 Pittman, I’m getting 2800. Also, kyles load of 92gr benchmark with 300 Pittman should see 2950 ish, I’m getting 2815. Both seem low but I’m new to this gun. Any ideas? 92 gr of benchmark in my 25in barrel asg ignition was 2950. Aside from all the variability mentioned any chance your chrono is off? I suppose it’s possible but it’s a new Doppler and was also used on my buddies gun that is 100 fps faster.
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Velocity
May 9, 2023 22:36:02 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by booner22 on May 9, 2023 22:36:02 GMT -5
92 gr of benchmark in my 25in barrel asg ignition was 2950. Aside from all the variability mentioned any chance your chrono is off? I suppose it’s possible but it’s a new Doppler and was also used on my buddies gun that is 100 fps faster. Probably not it then thought maybe two different chronos.
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grizz
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by grizz on May 13, 2023 18:11:48 GMT -5
Wondering what everyone’s experience is with muzzle velocity. From what I’ve seen so far with my new build it seems slow compared to others I’ve read about. My gun is mesa ml action, 26” brux modified sendero. Hankins HIS ignition with fed match mag primers. My understanding is 78gr of 4198 should see around 2900 with 275 Pittman, I’m getting 2800. Also, kyles load of 92gr benchmark with 300 Pittman should see 2950 ish, I’m getting 2815. Both seem low but I’m new to this gun. Any ideas? 92 gr of benchmark in my 25in barrel asg ignition was 2950. Aside from all the variability mentioned any chance your chrono is off? Went to 88gr of rel 10x and velocity jumped to 3000
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Post by 445supermag on May 13, 2023 20:37:30 GMT -5
92 gr of benchmark in my 25in barrel asg ignition was 2950. Aside from all the variability mentioned any chance your chrono is off? Went to 88gr of rel 10x and velocity jumped to 3000 Grizz that's fast compared to mine. But and there is a BUTT here. I used a cheap chrono a pro chrono and 93gr put me in the mid 2900 fps in my rifle. But I am getting tired of my cheap chrono so purchased what you have and shoukd be the most accurate one out there. Bullet seeker mach 4. I will be hitting the range tomorrow to see if all those older chrono speeds are wrong comparing these 2 chrono's. My rifle is new also and I don't think I have 50 shots down the barrel yet. But I am going to weigh some powder now for my range session.
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grizz
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by grizz on May 20, 2023 7:13:06 GMT -5
Went to 88gr of rel 10x and velocity jumped to 3000 Grizz that's fast compared to mine. But and there is a BUTT here. I used a cheap chrono a pro chrono and 93gr put me in the mid 2900 fps in my rifle. But I am getting tired of my cheap chrono so purchased what you have and shoukd be the most accurate one out there. Bullet seeker mach 4. I will be hitting the range tomorrow to see if all those older chrono speeds are wrong comparing these 2 chrono's. My rifle is new also and I don't think I have 50 shots down the barrel yet. But I am going to weigh some powder now for my range session. You’ll love the bullet seeker. It’s fantastic. I’ve checked the velocity against a magneto speed, shot both at the same time, they were about 12 fps diff from each other. Let me know what you find and how you like the bullet seeker.
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Post by 445supermag on May 20, 2023 19:47:24 GMT -5
Thanks Grizz. Yup I love it. Went to the range the other day and it was fantastic for my SML and my 22 mag. Shoukd be the best chrono out there. More power than labradar and less fussy. I am glad I chose this over the labradar for sure.
I was reading people comparing the magneto and lab against each other and they have small differences too. This BS is just a much better mousetrap. I found the 22 needed me to take off that little piece to read it. Brain fart on that piece lol. I am learning it and it's so awesome.
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