Post by hwbd1 on Apr 4, 2023 20:19:13 GMT -5
I"ve thought about building a 30 cal smokeless muzzleloader for use with off the shelf 30 cal projectiles. 30 cal is purpose built for rifle speed already which is better than using pistol projectiles. 30 cal is available in a wide variety of choices. 30 cal is bulk priced. 30 cal would require less powder than the usual calibers. This build is about bang for the buck over the long run. The main purpose would be to more frequently enjoy longer range target shooting in a more economical way. If possible I'd like to use heavier projectiles at either .308 or 300 winmag type speeds. I would like to be able to use the muzzleloader during regular rifle season on deer. Possibly elk someday during regular rifle season if it were in the cards but its not a deal breaker. From what ive seen, Swinglock Muzzleloader use to produce a 30 cal and a 6.5mm muzzleloader about 10 years ago. Swinglock doesn't make custom muzzleloaders anymore. Swinglocks sizing dies have become their main focus instead. There isn't a big demand for 30 cal smokeless muzzleloaders and information on coming up with a 30 cal build, has been hard to find. I found someone who is willing to do the build. We would both be learning as we went.
From what I understand about the swinglock 30 cal:
A positive stop was used at the end of the powder chamber to stop the projectile
There was a certain amount of airspace (how much I don't know) left in the powder chamber.
the powder chamber was necked down like a brass cartridge.
I think a full form sizing die is necessary in this case because there is a host of constraints when you push a really long and heavy projectile through a narrower than usual barrel at what I'd hope would be a high speed. there is an increased amount of friction you need to mitigate because the projectile is longer. there is an increased amount of pressure due to using a narrower barrel. After all that, you still need the projectile to obturate to the barrel while not exceeding maximum pressure. I would think a longer narrower projectile is harder to obturate than a shorter wider one. It would be hard to achieve obturation by way of firing without exceeding maximum pressure. the full form sizing die should help combat all those hurdles and avoid exceedingly high pressure. The full form sizing of projectiles would achieve obturation without the need of high pressure to do so. Obturation would be performed on the projectile during the sizing process and not by the effects of firing pressure. I was told after full form sizing you could even use a boat tail in a 30 cal. I was told after full form sizing, its possible to shoot very light loads in tight groups because obturation by use of firing pressure is not necessary. Though Im not looking to have a powder chamber built for extremely light loads, that was still interesting information.
I'd like to try and understand:
what is the purpose a necked down powder chamber
what dimensions to use in the necked down portion of the powder chamber,
a good way to incorporate a positive stop,
why you would want to leave air space in the powder chamber
how much air space to have
how to facilitate this air space in a way that promotes consistent powder position. I would think if the powder can feely move it could effect consistency
Id like to use direct ignition in order to use the least amount of powder for the speed achieved. If anybody has any thoughts on ignition systems in relation to this build please chime in. Im going to use a pressure tester to work up a load while staying within recomended pressures. I'm going to fire the muzzleloader remotely in the beginning and take measurements of the barrels shank to keep an eye out for over pressurazation signs. If anyone has some understanding of 30 cal smokeless building I'd love to hear about it. Some of you who have experience with the constraints of 40 cal builds may have good input also. Thanks all.
From what I understand about the swinglock 30 cal:
A positive stop was used at the end of the powder chamber to stop the projectile
There was a certain amount of airspace (how much I don't know) left in the powder chamber.
the powder chamber was necked down like a brass cartridge.
I think a full form sizing die is necessary in this case because there is a host of constraints when you push a really long and heavy projectile through a narrower than usual barrel at what I'd hope would be a high speed. there is an increased amount of friction you need to mitigate because the projectile is longer. there is an increased amount of pressure due to using a narrower barrel. After all that, you still need the projectile to obturate to the barrel while not exceeding maximum pressure. I would think a longer narrower projectile is harder to obturate than a shorter wider one. It would be hard to achieve obturation by way of firing without exceeding maximum pressure. the full form sizing die should help combat all those hurdles and avoid exceedingly high pressure. The full form sizing of projectiles would achieve obturation without the need of high pressure to do so. Obturation would be performed on the projectile during the sizing process and not by the effects of firing pressure. I was told after full form sizing you could even use a boat tail in a 30 cal. I was told after full form sizing, its possible to shoot very light loads in tight groups because obturation by use of firing pressure is not necessary. Though Im not looking to have a powder chamber built for extremely light loads, that was still interesting information.
I'd like to try and understand:
what is the purpose a necked down powder chamber
what dimensions to use in the necked down portion of the powder chamber,
a good way to incorporate a positive stop,
why you would want to leave air space in the powder chamber
how much air space to have
how to facilitate this air space in a way that promotes consistent powder position. I would think if the powder can feely move it could effect consistency
Id like to use direct ignition in order to use the least amount of powder for the speed achieved. If anybody has any thoughts on ignition systems in relation to this build please chime in. Im going to use a pressure tester to work up a load while staying within recomended pressures. I'm going to fire the muzzleloader remotely in the beginning and take measurements of the barrels shank to keep an eye out for over pressurazation signs. If anyone has some understanding of 30 cal smokeless building I'd love to hear about it. Some of you who have experience with the constraints of 40 cal builds may have good input also. Thanks all.
