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Post by Hank on Jan 8, 2016 19:48:55 GMT -5
This is going to be a pretty long post and I hope you will read it entirely.
As you all know. I placed an ad on Doug's board a few days ago. I did this to promote my new website to the guys that might want to see it on Doug's board.. It was a paid ad and I went through all the proper channels to have it posted legitimately.
For months now I have been accused of advertising on Doug's board for free so I place a "PAID" ad on the board (more than any other seller has ever done) and I was accused of attacking the board... I knew before I placed the ad that it would not last more than 24 hours before Edge bought my ad off the board. You can buy the message board, it you so choose, and it will be ad free. So all this time Edge has been crying about Hankins advertising on the board for free was a bunch of baloney. The real problem Edge has with me is I was not willing to back down from him and I proved him wrong in a dispute we had over breech plug threads sealing without a shoulder. He has never been able to get past the fact that he was wrong, so I have been banned from Doug's board and it's ok to scrutinize and ridicule me over there. You can say all the negative stuff you want and it will remain on the board, say something nice about me or my guns and he removes it. For those of you who are new to this board here is the video I did explaining to Edge that it takes more than just the threads to seal the gasses. After I made the video and posted it on Doug's for everyone to see Edge took it down and started calling me names, real bad names I might add, Like a small child would do when he didn't get his way at Wal-Mart.
Then some other keyboard hero on Doug's decided to prove you didn't need a shoulder on the breech plug to shoot these ML's. So he machined off the shoulder and fired his gun a few times. OK.... that proves only one thing to me,,,, How dumb can you get....? If you shot that set up over a period of time you will without a doubt have problems. Bring that rig to the challenge and compete all day shooting a breech plug that has no shoulder and is sitting in the barrel loose.... come on down to KY and shoot that thing, come on down....!
This same guy took exception to the very first Kentucky Challenge Invitational. He accused me of saying every ones rifles were junk unless I built them. Well, this is not what I said and if I offended him that's because he feels as if his rifles are sub standard. In the very first video of the Ultimate Muzzle loader challenge I was challenging the other manufactures to show up, bring their rifles and see if they could keep up with the rifles I build. I didn't get one single manufacture to show up. All I got was a bunch of good ole boys wanting to learn and advance the muzzle loading sport as we knew it then. That is exactly what we have done. The group of guys that show up at the Challenge's each year are on the cutting edge of performance. We will continue to be on the top of high performance muzzle loading.
For any of you that have not seen the first challenge video. here it is... If I come across strong, that's because I believe in my products and I can, will and did back them up.
The reason for this (Hank's) board is because Edge lost it one night and banned one of the good members, for dis-agreeing with him, So I decided it was time to start a new board. A place where we didn't have to be excepted by the in crowd. Throughout history people have had to move on, leave what they didn't like in hopes for something better. I think that at Hank's Board. you can find something better.
So, to all the new guys on this board, I just wanted to explain why some of the hard feelings are between Edge, and a few other over there and myself,. and the two boards.
There will always be haters. It don't matter if you are introducing new bullets, or a new breech plug and ignition system, someone will hate you for doing it....
P.S. I don't care what kind of ignition system you shoot, or what brand of bullets you prefer, weather you want a Remington action or a Savage, 50 caliber, 45 caliber or one of the many other possible calibers that can be made into a SML. All I care about is advancing this sport, introducing new products and ideas, and making the best out of what we have. For the haters that want to hold back and stand still, well that's ok with me too, but don't get in the way of those that want to move forward.
We all have opinions, ideas and ways we like to do thing. Not all of us are going to agree on all things, that's what makes us men, but lets agree to dis-agree.
Jeff.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2016 20:01:49 GMT -5
Good post Hank, this board is allot more civil that is for sure. Adults agreeing to disagree and still be friends at the end of the day is what is all about. I don't get the war against you and your friends on the other board. I pray that Doug's will return to what it used to be which is why I continue to watch threads there. Advancing the smokeless muzzleloader is very cool to watch and anyone that wants to criticize it, well stupid to me.
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Post by YankeeReb on Jan 8, 2016 20:05:30 GMT -5
Well said Jeff, and your video did prove you were right. I would also like to mention that I seen 209 gun groups over at dougs where you told the guy that his gun would be a contender at the challenge and to come to the next shoot.. That tells me the things that were said about you is a bunch of hate and bullshit.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2016 20:42:44 GMT -5
Good post Jeff!
I'm always glad to see and accept other options and opinions, that's the crux of invention. I'm not sure what's going on over at Doug's board, I don't let that affect me. I have always associated with and been a part of whatever I found interesting, no one here and no one anywhere is gonna brow beat me otherwise.
I do find the camaraderie and respect here better and reminisce of what Doug's used to be when I joined it over two years ago. I've noted some good lighted heart-ed fun here without offending anyone, that is refreshing.
I will continue to belong to both boards and others while abiding by my own personal code of conduct which is the good old fashioned golden rule.
So anyone from over there lurking about, know this: My name is Steve and I'm a fence jumper. You got a problem with that...too bad.
Rock on my bros
Steve
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Post by rojo23 on Jan 8, 2016 20:55:59 GMT -5
I watched your video on the thread sealing a while back. I am not a machinist, but it is obvious that the threads are not doing the sealing. I think probably pipe threads for plumbing would be the only 'sealing' threads since they are tapered.
All adults realize that it is ok to debate/disagree, and you can still be friends. I know I don't always agree with my wife, but I am not going to 'banned' her from the house. I like this forum much better. Always positive post/responses, and no one tries to belittle anyone for asking questions.
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Post by hillbill on Jan 8, 2016 21:09:21 GMT -5
Well I've been banned from the house before
Got to take a skillet and a bed along with my hunting junk; O yes, and a bunch of her bills
eventually all this stuff will blow over, in the meanwhile we will just go on being civilized rednecks and redneck want to be's
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beans
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Post by beans on Jan 8, 2016 21:13:10 GMT -5
Good post Jeff. I've never given two hoots about your guns, your ignition systems or the crazy custom builds. No disrespect intended. At least in terms of what I want in a ML. HOWEVER...many on Doug's have come and gone with new innovations that propelled the arena of smokeless. All VERY interesting to me. Before the trade section was banned by proboards, people sold their gadgets and upgraded items DAILY for a price. Then that was stopped not by Edge, but by proboards to be fair.
The strange thing singling you out was very irritating to me. Luke can advertise. Others can promote bullets and plugs. Others can promote building a gun for someone.
I think the root cause of the riff was the clash of a person who has a good system and the clash of a Admin who lost his cool and tried to reel something in that was not able to do so. As Hank said, progress will go forward...Doug's or no Doug's. In the meantime, Edge will not lose face at any cost. Doesn't matter what anyone says. Say "Hank" or "HIS" and you are banned. GESTAPO style. You want Doug's to get back to where it was? Get rid of Edge. That is not probably gonna happen because Doug is no longer around and no one police's the board. Edge is the police and the "owner". Sad.
BUT, the good side is that we now have another similar board. As a mod, I have yet to PM someone to coach them or tell them they are out of line. What's that tell you? Doug's is contaminated and I feel bad for the guys that have to remain and act as directed by the dictator (minus the tator)
Rock on. Make cool shit. Make money. Help people. Have great intra-national shoots every year. Edge can slowly soak in his ego and slowly watch H.I.S. board and membership slip away or become puppets to him. He will be like a 3 year old cuddling in his bed with 15 stuffed anmals....all of which he has named.
WHATEVER!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2016 21:21:51 GMT -5
This is a good place to be! Thanks you guys!
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Post by Yankee Bill on Jan 8, 2016 23:58:16 GMT -5
Well spoken Jeff. Brings a lot of clarity to lite.
I just can't get over how Doug's board has changed and how people are treated there now. As compared to the days when Doug, Mama Flinter, Rick Bibby and the old crew were still around.
Healthy topic debate is what keeps these boards alive, makes them interesting, and spurs innovation.
I'm glad to see that there is now an alternative site for folks to come to and do just that. And without fear of being ridiculed or belittled just because they give their opinion, or, ask a question regarding certain products.
I like the way people treat each other with respect here, as that's the way it should be.
YB
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2016 0:09:13 GMT -5
Good post Jeff. I've never given two hoots about your guns, your ignition systems or the crazy custom builds. No disrespect intended. At least in terms of what I want in a ML. HOWEVER...many on Doug's have come and gone with new innovations that propelled the arena of smokeless. All VERY interesting to me. Before the trade section was banned by proboards, people sold their gadgets and upgraded items DAILY for a price. Then that was stopped not by Edge, but by proboards to be fair. The strange thing singling you out was very irritating to me. Luke can advertise. Others can promote bullets and plugs. Others can promote building a gun for someone. I think the root cause of the riff was the clash of a person who has a good system and the clash of a Admin who lost his cool and tried to reel something in that was not able to do so. As Hank said, progress will go forward...Doug's or no Doug's. In the meantime, Edge will not lose face at any cost. Doesn't matter what anyone says. Say "Hank" or "HIS" and you are banned. GESTAPO style. You want Doug's to get back to where it was? Get rid of Edge. That is not probably gonna happen because Doug is no longer around and no one police's the board. Edge is the police and the "owner". Sad. BUT, the good side is that we now have another similar board. As a mod, I have yet to PM someone to coach them or tell them they are out of line. What's that tell you? Doug's is contaminated and I feel bad for the guys that have to remain and act as directed by the dictator (minus the tator) Rock on. Make cool shit. Make money. Help people. Have great intra-national shoots every year. Edge can slowly soak in his ego and slowly watch H.I.S. board and membership slip away or become puppets to him. He will be like a 3 year old cuddling in his bed with 15 stuffed anmals....all of which he has named. WHATEVER! If anyone knows how Doug's was and is now ,It would be you....And THANK YOU for telling it like it is and how things went down over there....
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Post by shane on Jan 9, 2016 2:26:31 GMT -5
Im new to both boards. Even know Savage Shooter Personally. Hunted with him for years. I was immediately accused of being a Spy Or Hanks Promoter when i posed questions Regarding different ignition systems. Bunch of cry babies in Dougs. I still peruse the board, jus dont mention Jeffs System anymore. Guess what tho? Cole sent me Build Info and sugggestions, ect.... within 10 min of my post!!! Is that not advertising? Sures seems like it too me!!!! Found it pretty funny. Thanks for the Innovations Hank. Carry On Shane
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beans
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Post by beans on Jan 9, 2016 6:23:32 GMT -5
Ya know Shane, you just brought up and excellent point. If people were being "planted" or sent over to Doug's just to stir up the pot, you would think at least ONE of them would make a post here saying "...did you see that guys? I really got Edge today" or something like that. But NO-ONE here has done that. And I am glad too. That is not what this board is about and not who we are. Everyone here has always taken the high road. Good job on that.
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Post by hillbill on Jan 9, 2016 9:29:40 GMT -5
It was thought that when Yankee Bill posted over there that it was me in disguise , well now they know otherwise. I don't operate that way guys, If I have something to say I just say it. I don't have to go in through the back door and I don't think anyone else here operates that way either. they read everything we say here just as what they say gets read by members here, the best way to put this all to bed is just let it go and move forward. we have all made our point and I agree, it needed to be said.
Jeff proved his theory a good while back but some of the new guys didn't know what all transpired, now they know and have an idea of the what all the hubbub is about.
Will the Dougs crowd ever change their attitude toward Jeff and the lot of us?? NO, it will never happen. Hopefully they will stop the attacks, I know they will read this so here it goes, Edge, Cole, Earnhardt, Kash, Guy and the rest, man up guys and let the past be in the past. No one from this board sends ANYONE to Dougs to advertise or promote anything. Jeff put the add up legally so the guys there would know what he has to offer, anyone could have done the same. Anyone that says anything about Jeff, this board or any of our members over there does so of their own free will, to think otherwise is foolish.
things have now been clarified;
My Challenge: To the above mentioned names AND to all of us here, for the good of the sport we need to be civil and put the past in the past, the best way to cure all this is to just move forward and let it rest, new guys looking at either forum are there for one reason, information. they get turned off by all the fuss. is it possible to let it rest? real men will do it. time to show what we are about.. TAKE THE HIGH ROAD
We are well into a new year and hopefully it will be a good one. we have a lot to look forward to with lots of new bullets to test and new guns to build, will innovations come our way this year? Let's work at it and make it happen. I look forward to the spring shoot and the opportunity to meet some of you new guys and to see old friends, be prepared for good food and a great time.
there are smart gents on both boards, who will be the innovators this year?, a challenge? lets work at it and see...
SHOOT STRAIGHT GUYS: TAKE THE HIGH ROAD: BE REAL MEN:
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2016 10:30:06 GMT -5
+1 Take the high road
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2016 10:40:03 GMT -5
Great post Hillbill! +1 take the high road!
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Post by Yankee Bill on Jan 9, 2016 10:49:42 GMT -5
Well said Bill! X3 in taking the High Road!
YB
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Post by deadeyedon89 on Jan 9, 2016 15:29:29 GMT -5
I too had bad experiences on Dougs board...... i was thinking about getting into the SML addiction about 2 years ago and was looking into builders because i have no knowledge on how to build a rifle. After all my research and soul searching to pull the trigger on spending the $$$ "I FELT" Jeff had the most knowledge/experience and was building the muzzleloader i wanted. I made payments to jeff over a 10month period and was on my way to pic up my rifle..... As soon as i posted my new gun on dougs board i was attacked by the "in crowd" over there. and all i was doing was showing my new Baby and the groups i shot...... 2 months later same thing....just wanted to show my trophy buck i shot while on a hunt in missouri, NOPE..... all i got accused of was advertising for jeff....... so now on to my most recent problem with dougs. I was one of the testers for Pittmans Accumax bullets. posted my results (which were good) on Dougs board....I mentioned nothing about Jeff, Hank, HIS, or this board..... and once again i get attacked with my results. Why? not because of the bullet....but because i own a Hankins, and the Owner of Pittman bullets owns a Hankins. Dougs board is a great place to learn as well about these SML's and truth be known there are only 6-10 of the members that cause all the problems. So i am over it because we have this board and it is so much more friendly over here...... The sad part is Dougs will probably keep loosing people because of the "agree with us" attitude. Great post Jeff and keep up the good work on the rifle building...... I am ready to keep learning!!!
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Post by shane on Jan 9, 2016 18:54:36 GMT -5
I owe Cole an apology. I didnt mean to throw Him under the proverbial bus. I posted on Ignition Systems and Pros/Cons Of each. Over on Doug's. There were several good responses and some great information. I was sent a PM from Cole with his phone number. He Offered for me to call him to discuss the different Options, because its a was a little too much to just type back and forth. I thought it was a great thing to get his Insight and first hand knowlegde. I Still do!! Furthermore, It was only after i sent him an email on cost of the Build, that he then sent an Estimate for Cost and components needed. I misspoke. I apologize for that.
MY POINT was that by sending me a PM and his phone number to CMC Firearms its the Same as handing me a Business Card. Isnt it? I actually appreciated his PM and his offer for me To give him a call because im new to the lingo and components. I was and still am considering a build.
I was just making a point that Advertising can be In many forms. I just feel like Jeff may have NOT Gotten a fair shake. I saw many hun build posts From Jeff and Cole. I think BOTH do Damn Fine Work!!!
So, i hope EVERYONE understands that it wasnt My intent to Call him out, but thats the way it was Perceived and i am truly apologetic for that mishap.
I am Man enough to apologize when i feel i may Have wronged or upset someone. If i have nothing else, i do have my Integrity.
I will Post this on both Boards and i Plan to Call Cole and personally apologize as well.
Sincerely, Shane
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2016 20:09:49 GMT -5
Shane your post just shows how Jeff was SINGLED out from other builders...Cole just started his business a year or so ago.....while Jeff has been doing it for over 20 yrs....HillBill ,Richard,FishHawk,Luke,and a couple others were "Builders" and whoever you wanted to go with ,you weren't going to go wrong....I had Hired Bill for my builds and am very pleased with his work...ended up being pretty good friends which is priceless....Were all a "special needs " group and interfamily bickering just doesn't have a place where I want to be...nuffsaid...
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Post by schunter on Jan 9, 2016 21:39:40 GMT -5
The High Road is always the Best Road!
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