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Post by doulos on Jan 7, 2016 14:08:32 GMT -5
This might be a dumb question but here goes. Ive noticed that a lot of the SMLs use very heavy barrel profiles. For instance Deadeyedons gun weighs over 13lbs and another that is for sale with a brux #17 contour weighs 13.25lb. These seem very heavy to me. Is it necessary to use that heavy of a contour to shoot those loads (78gr IMR4198)?
Im mostly interested in shorter range as a hunter. If the loads used dictate the barrel contour. What would I need for the following rifle? I'd be very satisfied with 2300 fps with a 250-300 grain bullet. That would make 250 yards pretty realistic.
Instead of 13lber would a gun with those characteristics be able to stay under 11lbs with scope with a different barrel profile? Or is safety an issue?
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Post by kskaggs on Jan 7, 2016 14:27:05 GMT -5
I think the heavier profiles are used incase of a double charging at least that's what I have been told. it will give you some protection if that occurs!!!
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Post by linebaugh on Jan 7, 2016 14:48:47 GMT -5
Kskaggs has most of it correct IMO.
For what you are looking for take a look at an Apex conversion and a smaller scope or even a straight power smaller scope. That will be light and do all you ask for and then some.
It's refreshing to read the down to earth posts like yours. A simple reliable deer hunting gun with reasonable expectations as far as yardage. There are probably many, many ways to get to where you want to be and the above is just one of them.
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Post by hillbill on Jan 7, 2016 15:10:20 GMT -5
you don't have to have a 13 lb gun to shoot these loads BUT the weight sure helps with recoil, for the parameters you mentioned a break action like the Apex would be Ideal.
Just MY thoughts on barrel dia minimums; for saboted loads in a .45 barrel with 200 grn bullets the Apex and encore factory profile barrels will suffice, the Apex is slightly larger dia than the encore, for sabotless bullets in the 250-275 grn range above 2500 fps you are getting into the Yellow zone, anything heavier? red zone for sure.
in bolt guns with a 1.200 shank I think the minimum is 1.200 for 3" forward of the lug with at least a sendero profile, anything less is a no go. One can build a 8 lb unscoped gun on such a berrel if you watch what parts are used. the problem with such a gun is recoil, it gets rather severe. again JMO
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Post by buckstuds on Jan 7, 2016 16:28:40 GMT -5
My new build,7lbs12ozs. Attachments:
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Post by kskaggs on Jan 7, 2016 16:43:00 GMT -5
what barrel and profile is that?
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Post by doulos on Jan 7, 2016 17:04:35 GMT -5
you don't have to have a 13 lb gun to shoot these loads BUT the weight sure helps with recoil, for the parameters you mentioned a break action like the Apex would be Ideal. Just MY thoughts on barrel dia minimums; for saboted loads in a .45 barrel with 200 grn bullets the Apex and encore factory profile barrels will suffice, the Apex is slightly larger dia than the encore, for sabotless bullets in the 250-275 grn range above 2500 fps you are getting into the Yellow zone, anything heavier? red zone for sure. in bolt guns with a 1.200 shank I think the minimum is 1.200 for 3" forward of the lug with at least a sendero profile, anything less is a no go. One can build a 8 lb unscoped gun on such a berrel if you watch what parts are used. the problem with such a gun is recoil, it gets rather severe. again JMO Weren't the Savage rifles smaller than 1.2?
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Post by itneverends22 on Jan 7, 2016 17:15:30 GMT -5
doulos, for what it is worth, I thought the same as you, I'm in my mid 60's and don't want a heavy sml, my hunting is mostly woods and swamp, i do have parcels that i could shoot 400-500 yds. I limit myself to 250, I feel comfortable at that range, So I had a encore, talked to jeff, and i bought a bullberry pac-nor 28in 45-70 . it is 1 inch thick, built to encore specs.. jeffs HIS plug.. It is a great carry, stand,woods gun, weighs 9+3/4lbs, with 3x9x40 scope base, rings, sling+ loaded. handles like a dream, shoots even better! jmo..
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Post by hillbill on Jan 7, 2016 17:28:33 GMT -5
yes the savages are some smaller, the ones I have used have a long shank though and that helps keep it safe. the small shank are a little over an inch.
short shanks and sabotless are not our friend, no margin for error, none...
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Post by lakeplainshunter on Jan 7, 2016 18:36:47 GMT -5
Please provide details on this build.
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Post by Yankee Bill on Jan 7, 2016 19:00:44 GMT -5
doulos, I'm in the same boat as you as far as SML needs go. I'm mainly a woods hunter also and wanted something light to carry in the mountains to use out of portable climbing stands where my shots are almost always 10 - 75 yds. But also wanted something capable of reaching out 250 - 300 yds. for the rare occasion when I may have a longer shot across a hollow to another ridgetop, etc..
I decided to go with the Apex and am having Jeff put his H.I.S. system in it, and also having him add an attached ramrod & holder to the gun. I'm topping it with a VX-3 2.5 - 8 X 36 and the total weight of the package should be around 8 1/2 - 9#. I think this will be perfect for my needs, and something similar may suite yours as well.
The guys here gave some great advice, an Encore, Apex or H&R conversion may all fit your needs nicely if you are not opposed to a break action gun. That bolt gun that buckstuds posted sure looks like it may fit nicely as well.
Just some food for thought. Best of luck with whatever you choose.
YB
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Post by jims on Jan 7, 2016 20:30:56 GMT -5
Just from memory I thought the Savage small shank was 1.06, the large shank 1.12. The blued barrels seemed to some to be stronger than the stainless and with Savage factory loads, mild loads no problems if no double loading or T-Rex loads. The Rem conversions, not having a barrel nut, use a barrel closer to 1.2 in diameter. This is all from memory, need to verify on your own. Some have the first 3 to 5 inches at the breech full size just in case there was a double load. Extra protection.
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Post by itneverends22 on Jan 7, 2016 20:32:11 GMT -5
y.b. I would have went the same way with the apex also, if i didn't already have the encores. with my encore, I carry a collaspible ramrod, and i love it.
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Post by buckstuds on Jan 7, 2016 20:35:27 GMT -5
Sendaro profile barrel, 700 mz action, bell and carlsen stock, aluminum trigger guard. Vortex viper hs 2.5x10x44 with talley bases and rings. Total gun should be just shy of 9 lbs.
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Post by Yankee Bill on Jan 7, 2016 22:36:31 GMT -5
y.b. I would have went the same way with the apex also, if i didn't already have the encores. with my encore, I carry a collaspible ramrod, and i love it. Yeah Charlie, I went back & forth trying to decide on a collapsible or affixed ramrod for my gun.
Lots of guys are using the collapsible's and really seem to like them. But I'm just so used to having one on my gun I just decided to have Jeff go ahead and rig it up for me while he had the gun there.
I can't wait to get it. I know it will be an awesome gun, just like all of Jeff's guns.
YB
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