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Post by sew on Oct 11, 2022 10:53:48 GMT -5
I shoot 40 calibers exclusively now but this information should apply regardless but likely to a lesser degree with the 45s.
I have 2 Jimbob 40s: an ultralite and a 15-16#er. Yesterday, I shot 225/228 AMs and 275/278 respectively. Both in the mid 2850s.
I also have a 10ML2/40 PN that I am shooting 225AMs exclusively. Last year, I got better accuracy with my 20 year old Sav that my 2 much nicer, better scoped Jimbob rifles.😳 Well sub MOA thru 300 yards with 10ML , slightly sub MOA with heavy JB 40 and MOA or so 100 & 200 with UL 40 and 2-3 MOA at 300.🙁
However, this year (yesterday) sub-1/2 MOA thru both JB 40s. Why? Because I shot regular cores vs hard cores. Loads are: UL 62g H322, 225g AM, WLRM, DI, no wad. Large 40 - 73g H4895 (dirty - need different powder) , DI, WLRM, 275 AM. Last year, I was shooting hard cores exclusively out of Jim’s rifles but regular cores out of my 10ML2/40. That is what made the difference.
Important findings: wads didn’t help regular cores with loads I used. Wads helped immensely with both 228 & 278. Group sizes with hard cores were close to double the size of the regular cores and velocity was appx 15’/sec slower ; but, the good news, THE HARD CORES GROUPED EXACTLY WITH THE REGULAR CORES. They were just larger groups.
Just a note: the fouling of the H322 stabilized after 2-3 shots but the H4895 just kept getting dirtier. After 2 shots, a dry bore brush once in & out kept it stabilized.
Now, a speculation. Hot loads in a 45 will likely not have as much hardcore obturation problem that my lighter loads in a 40 had.
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mitch
Junior Member
Posts: 90
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Post by mitch on Oct 11, 2022 12:41:08 GMT -5
Great testing and information summary, SEW. Appreciate you sharing your hard work.
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Post by Kyle on Oct 11, 2022 13:17:05 GMT -5
I shoot 40 calibers exclusively now but this information should apply regardless but likely to a lesser degree with the 45s. I have 2 Jimbob 40s: an ultralite and a 15-16#er. Yesterday, I shot 225/228 AMs and 275/278 respectively. Both in the mid 2850s. I also have a 10ML2/40 PN that I am shooting 225AMs exclusively. Last year, I got better accuracy with my 20 year old Sav that my 2 much nicer, better scoped Jimbob rifles.😳 Well sub MOA thru 300 yards with 10ML , slightly sub MOA with heavy JB 40 and MOA or so 100 & 200 with UL 40 and 2-3 MOA at 300.🙁 However, this year (yesterday) sub-1/2 MOA thru both JB 40s. Why? Because I shot regular cores vs hard cores. Loads are: UL 62g H322, 225g AM, WLRM, DI, no wad. Large 40 - 73g H4895 (dirty - need different powder) , DI, WLRM, 275 AM. Last year, I was shooting hard cores exclusively out of Jim’s rifles but regular cores out of my 10ML2/40. That is what made the difference. Important findings: wads didn’t help regular cores with loads I used. Wads helped immensely with both 228 & 278. Group sizes with hard cores were close to double the size of the regular cores and velocity was appx 15’/sec slower ; but, the good news, THE HARD CORES GROUPED EXACTLY WITH THE REGULAR CORES. They were just larger groups. Just a note: the fouling of the H322 stabilized after 2-3 shots but the H4895 just kept getting dirtier. After 2 shots, a dry bore brush once in & out kept it stabilized. Now, a speculation. Hot loads in a 45 will likely not have as much hardcore obturation problem that my lighter loads in a 40 had. .40’s are different animals than .45’s. The jackets are constructed more heavily to counteract the higher centripetal force with the faster twist barrels found in the .40’s. Hard Cores are designed for situations where a hunter might expect a high velocity impact. Due to the nature of the construction, .40 228gr and 278gr may group larger than the 225’s or 278’s. Zero to 200, I think the variance is trivial in a hunting situation on deer sized game. That being said, I have many customers shooting the 228’s smooth sized in the Paramount .40’s with BH209 shooting well under 1” groups at 100 yards, some way tighter than that. An accomplished shooter from Dunlap Tennessee exclusively shoots the Aeromax .452” 303’s for hunting and competition. When he shows up to a match he is normally 1st or second in his class. The originals and the Hard Cores both have their place. Just doing my part to offer the options. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. |
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Post by hillbill on Oct 11, 2022 20:46:37 GMT -5
I notice very little if any difference between regular and HC bullets in the .45 bore, my groups are just as good from the 303 HC bullets as with the 300 regular Aeromax.
The big difference between the two in a hunting scenario is bullet speed, for slower loads the 300s are fine, for the speedier loads you are better served with the hard cores for most situations.
As sew and Kyle indicated the .40 bore is a different bird from it's .45 brother, bullet density and jacket thickness makes the bullets harder to swell.
I have heard some say, why not just make a thinner jacket? Kyle answered that one.
.40 caliber load combos that work well are not easy, each gun and load is different, there is no one size fits all like the .45 caliber.
BUT once you get there they are sweet to shoot and to hunt with, very accurate to boot.
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ronc
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by ronc on Oct 12, 2022 21:25:18 GMT -5
I have limited experience with some of Kyle's, all on the light weight side. We have shot several deer with the 45 cal 250 and 253HC in the 2600-2650 fps range. Like with Steve, I use a wad on 253, none on the 250 required. The 253 holds together better at that speed with all pass-through lung shots around 2"-4" exit wounds depending on the range, longest was 256 yards.
I have 2 40 cal's that I shoot the 228HC in, a 20" and a 26". They both will shoot less than an inch at 200 yds using the same powder charge of H4198 and no wad, 2690 fps in the 20" Pac-Nor, 2802 fps in the 26" Brux barrel, both are 16" twist.
I shot my first group ever with any gun last year at 300 yds using the 26" Brux. The first 2 went inside a 1" square and the third opened the group up to 1.4".
I have shot a dozen or so with the 228HC bullet. All were pass-through lung shots, from 50 yds to 240 yds, normally around 3" exit wounds, always a good blood trail...if they run. At 2800 fps it still has enough speed and energy for deer well past 400 yds. I really like this bullet at these speeds for my kind of hunting with the 40 cal.
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Post by 1coyotemaster on Oct 13, 2022 5:36:30 GMT -5
Thanks all for your observations. I've learned that the information gleaned here is always spot on. My only experience is with the 275s and they really shine in the Brux barrels with 4198. Thanks Kyle for the dedication it must take to produce such a high quality projectile.
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