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Post by iweetodid on Sept 15, 2021 21:01:31 GMT -5
Why are there no pressure traces done on black powder .50 caliber rifles? Is there something to hide?
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Post by GMB54-120 on Sept 16, 2021 9:33:06 GMT -5
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Post by iweetodid on Sept 16, 2021 11:05:57 GMT -5
Just because I want to know. I don't follow the sheeple heard very well. What is the problem with knowing? Knowledge is a very good thing. It helps with future decisions that I may want to make. Thank you for your reply.
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Post by hillbill on Sept 16, 2021 20:40:37 GMT -5
First off this is a Smokeless board so why would there be .50 cal traces with black powder? We currently have no one doing traces and even IF we did a .50 cal smoker load would be very last on the list IF ever done. There is likely other sites that MIGHT have trace results but they will be scarce. Why would you think there is anything to hide?
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Post by dennis on Sept 17, 2021 6:49:44 GMT -5
You would be more likely to find smoker info on modern muzzleloader forum as there are a bunch over there who shoot them exclusively. As far as pressure traces go?
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Post by GMB54-120 on Sept 17, 2021 9:12:26 GMT -5
The only "smoker traces" ive seen on any of the boards have been Blackhorn209. Ive seen several of the OPs posts on 2 boards. Some of his questions and comments seem unusual. When given advice we are being "sheeplish"?
Good luck, the Lyman manual is only about $25 on Amazon and it sounds like it has lots of traces. Happy you got so much $$$ for your junk MLII you could not get to shoot using PR's duplex sabots shooting a 35cal bullet in a 50cal bore.
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Post by iweetodid on Sept 17, 2021 21:30:38 GMT -5
First off this is a Smokeless board so why would there be .50 cal traces with black powder? We currently have no one doing traces and even IF we did a .50 cal smoker load would be very last on the list IF ever done. There is likely other sites that MIGHT have trace results but they will be scarce. Why would you think there is anything to hide?
first of THIS IS THE MODERN ML FORUM? That is why I posted it here. Will be looking at purchasing a pressure trace 2 soon. Modern black powder and sub guns??? |
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Post by buckeye68 on Sept 17, 2021 23:26:33 GMT -5
First off this is a Smokeless board so why would there be .50 cal traces with black powder? We currently have no one doing traces and even IF we did a .50 cal smoker load would be very last on the list IF ever done. There is likely other sites that MIGHT have trace results but they will be scarce. Why would you think there is anything to hide?
first of THIS IS THE MODERN ML FORUM? That is why I posted it here. Will be looking at purchasing a pressure trace 2 soon. Modern black powder and sub guns??? I hope you do because it sure would be nice if someone started doing pressure traces again. |
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Post by iweetodid on Sept 18, 2021 14:32:20 GMT -5
first of THIS IS THE MODERN ML FORUM? That is why I posted it here. Will be looking at purchasing a pressure trace 2 soon. Modern black powder and sub guns??? I hope you do because it sure would be nice if someone started doing pressure traces again. yes, I fully intend on doing this because of all the negative responses to my posts. I did do some no nonono tests today with great success. |
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Post by smokelessk on Sept 21, 2021 9:18:34 GMT -5
First off this is a Smokeless board so why would there be .50 cal traces with black powder? We currently have no one doing traces and even IF we did a .50 cal smoker load would be very last on the list IF ever done. There is likely other sites that MIGHT have trace results but they will be scarce. Why would you think there is anything to hide?
first of THIS IS THE MODERN ML FORUM? That is why I posted it here. Will be looking at purchasing a pressure trace 2 soon. Modern black powder and sub guns??? There is more than one muzzleloader forum on the web. There is a whole separate forum called "modern muzzleloader." Guys there, by large, do different things than the majority of shooters here. Most, not all but most, of the guys who use Hanks message board find their niche in smokeless. (Which is understandable considering the individual/individuals who began this whole message board make their living, or part of their living, building smokeless muzzleloaders.) Hence why you might notice a much higher frequency of posts under the "smokeless muzzleloading" part of this message board as compared to the "modern black powder and BP sub guns." Note, smokeless muzzleloading section contains 74 pages of information. Modern black powder section contains 4 pages. |
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Post by joelmoney on Sept 21, 2021 12:25:52 GMT -5
My opinion why it’s hard to find pressure traces for black powder or substitutes is because of how hard it actually is to blow up a black powder gun using black powder. I couldn’t tell you how many double loads I have shot out. Loaded absolute crazy amounts of powder used FFFFF as a primary charge in a rifle trying to get more velocity. I’ve shot multiple projectiles and a bunch of other stupid things and never done damage to a breach plug or barrel. I did have a few nipple issues.
Many of these thing would have severely dammed a smokeless gun. There is lots of “wiggle room” in a smoker not much in a smokeless. That is the reason we NEED more information for smokeless than smokers
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Post by hillbill on Sept 21, 2021 13:17:01 GMT -5
Trace equipment is expensive and time consuming to use, not to mention the cost of different components to trace. We wonder why no one is doing it these days?
I personally know 3 guys that have done it, one is no longer with us but both the other 2 will tell you it's a PITA.
I agree that it would be a waste of time and money to trace smoker loads but if he wants to jump on it more power to him.
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Post by iweetodid on Sept 21, 2021 16:47:08 GMT -5
I have loaded my 700 Remington 50 cal with 3 t7 sticks and a 300 grain bullet to get over 2100fps on the crony. I then crushed 3 more next and it hit really hard and showed 2268fps? How much pressure do you think that was? No damage to the rifle at all, just a nice lump between my eyes. I would have liked to know the pressure because my 10ml using 35 grains of Alliant steel and only produced just over 2200fps.
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Post by smokelessk on Sept 21, 2021 17:44:55 GMT -5
Crushing any propellant is a REALLY bad idea.
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Post by jims on Sept 21, 2021 18:33:44 GMT -5
Frontier Muzzleloading is mostly black powder. They may have something.
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Post by iweetodid on Sept 21, 2021 19:26:05 GMT -5
Frontier Muzzleloading is mostly black powder. They may have something. I will look. |
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Post by leftyml on Sept 21, 2021 20:02:26 GMT -5
Joelmoney,like u I have done some crazy things in the past with b.p. like 360 grs. fffg and a 370 gr. maxiball.Read once in a Lyman b.p. handbook that b.p. maxed out at around 18,000 psi. Dixie Gun Works once put breech plugs in a 12" piece of barrel,drill a fuse hole and filled with fffg. Lit fuse and all that gas came out the fuse hole! So yes there is plenty "wiggle room" with b.p. Now with b.p. subs. that is different. Just my 2 cents
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Post by joelmoney on Sept 21, 2021 21:52:07 GMT -5
Leftyml
I didn’t do anything stupid with Blackhorn 209
Pyrodex, 777, clean shot, Goex and a couple I don’t remember the name of I was never able to do any significant damage to a smoker. Highest velocities I was ever able to achieve was 777 45 cal round ball in a sabot. Many of the things I tried I certainly will not say on an open board. I will say there were safety measures in place for the gun being destroyed. I tested a boat load of stuff and lost more chronographs than I care to mention. All to prove to my mind there had to be a better way to get velocity. That way was using a smokeless gun. I now have all the hunting gun I probably ever need. My effective range is now dictated by my rest and how much the animal can move from me pulling the trigger and bullet getting there. Now that the gun is not my limiting factor I’m pretty much done searching.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Sept 22, 2021 12:17:22 GMT -5
Frontier Muzzleloading is mostly black powder. They may have something. That forum is basically dead atm. The old owner has been funneling people off to another one. He sold it and when the new owners canned one of his friends who was a mod he started making new forums again. The same current owner has Modern Muzzle Loading and its doing just fine but you wont find BP traces there either. There is a traditional muzzle loading forum also but you better never mention a sabot or inline. They will delete any post like that and ban repeat offenders. |
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