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Post by shane on Dec 27, 2015 16:30:27 GMT -5
So I have read in other places that
One is better than the other.
I am beginning to think that done properly, both
Are equally as stable. Lots of guys using Laminate
With pillars on these MLs with tremendous recoil
And they are holding their own.
I was also wondering where a third pillar is installed?
Pics if that would be nice to see.
Thanks,
Shane
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Post by Hank on Dec 27, 2015 18:24:58 GMT -5
first I will have to say that I bed all the rifles I build weather it has an aluminum V block or not.. IMO a bedded rifle is more stable than a non bedded rifle.. Now if you are using a wood stock bedding is almost a have to and using aluminum pillars prevents you from squashing the wood when you tighten up your action screws. With a stock that has a V block in it some people won't bed it. If you loosen the action screws a trun and the action moves around in the block, then it needs bedded.. A skin coat is all that's really needed in this case as you are only filling the voids usually in the recoil lug pocket.
To me the third screw that some add is not needed. Does it hurt anything, I can't see where it would but two screws is all you really need to properly hold the action in the stock. Some custom actions come with three screw holes but these are designed to be used without the recoil lug between the barrel and action, the recoil lug is either built into the bottom of the action or has a small bolt on lug on the bottom of the action. Some of the largest action designed for the cheytac rounds only use two 1/4-28 bolts to secure it in the stock.. It's the bedding and recoil lug that takes the punishment..
Someone might post a picture of the third pillar location and it defiantly won't hurt if you use one...
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Post by shane on Dec 27, 2015 18:53:14 GMT -5
Thanks Hank. I too always bed my rifles, regardless
Of the design.
Makes me feel better. I'm a little OCD tho.
I sent u a PM on a build
Thanks
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Post by hillbill on Dec 27, 2015 20:04:44 GMT -5
x 2 on what Jeff said.
I bed all my guns and most are in stocks with bedding blocks, I don't see a down side to a non block stock as long as it has pillars and is bedded properly, most three pillar guns are savages and I really don't see a big advantage on a CF action. many of us third pillared the Savage ML actions because the rear pillar doubled as the bolt retention screw and it was badly needed..
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Post by keith on Dec 27, 2015 22:25:40 GMT -5
I disagree on bedding the V-block. I haven't seen it hurt but why pay for a switch system then glue it for one gun? Not all V-block are created equal either. KRG just fixed the issue that caused me to sell mine. Manners has it nailed down. I've pulled bedded guns out of their stock and shot them in the MCS without any loss of precision or accuracy. I'm not sure I'll ever buy anything else again unless it isn't a choice or doesn't make sense ( like a single shot action in a dedicated stock with MCS-DBM).
What H-S and B&C have isn't really a bedding block any more than a fully inlet McMillan is a drop in stock. Those need to be skim bedded or resurfaced like LRI did for the military a few years back. I just don't use them mostly because B&C doesn't have a design I like other than the M-40 (but McM has the HTG and Tom has the TA) and I think H-S is heavy and kicks.
Everything not mentioned above gets pillar - epoxy bedded.
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Post by shane on Dec 27, 2015 22:49:01 GMT -5
Man that Manners sounds awesome!
Thanks for that info. Maybe something for me in the future. But If I spent $800 plus on a Manners, it would have
To be used on more than one gun.
I just like all my rifles to have their own furniture.
I have heard about the Quality of a Manners
Stock, but my HS Precision, Glass bedded .308 Sendero shoots better than I can shoot it as it sits. So I can't see
Spending that extra on the Manners stock at this
I'm glad to know that regardless if Pillar/Glass bedded
Or Full Aluminum/Bedded that accuracy will be fine. (Assuming it's done properly)
It gives me more stock options for the my "Big Recoiling"
MZL build.
Thanks for the replies.
Lots of knowledgable guys on here.
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Post by Richard on Dec 27, 2015 23:03:03 GMT -5
I guarantee that that on target, you would not tell the difference between the same barreled action set in a Manners or a PROPERLY pillar bedded laminate like a Boyd's. It all depends on how deep your pockets are or your personal preferences!
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Post by speedrackin on Dec 28, 2015 6:45:59 GMT -5
Not to be real dumb can we get some pics of pillar bedding and or the different types of bedding ?
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Post by keith on Dec 28, 2015 8:27:42 GMT -5
Not to be real dumb can we get some pics of pillar bedding and or the different types of bedding ? McMillan pillar bedded with Acra-Glas  Manners MCS-DBM  |
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Post by keith on Dec 28, 2015 8:32:21 GMT -5
I guarantee that that on target, you would not tell the difference between the same barreled action set in a Manners or a PROPERLY pillar bedded laminate like a Boyd's. It all depends on how deep your pockets are or your personal preferences! That's what I said earlier. The difference is if you break Tom's stock he'll fix it. I called him and told him my new trigger didn't work in the bottom metal. He sent me a shipping label and had me send two stocks with the same issue to get milled. He also re-inlet one for its new barrel. Cost to me was $Free.99 and I had them back in a week. |
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Post by YankeeReb on Dec 28, 2015 9:50:52 GMT -5
So who came out with the v blocks first? Reason I ask is because Ruger has a patent on theirs in the American.
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Post by speedrackin on Dec 28, 2015 10:11:38 GMT -5
Thanks for the pic its exactly what i thought
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Post by Hank on Dec 28, 2015 10:24:21 GMT -5
I guarantee that that on target, you would not tell the difference between the same barreled action set in a Manners or a PROPERLY pillar bedded laminate like a Boyd's. It all depends on how deep your pockets are or your personal preferences! That's what I said earlier. The difference is if you break Tom's stock he'll fix it. I called him and told him my new trigger didn't work in the bottom metal. He sent me a shipping label and had me send two stocks with the same issue to get milled. He also re-inlet one for its new barrel. Cost to me was $Free.99 and I had them back in a week. If you order your stock from Manners with a Remington inlet, or you purchase one of their ready to ship stocks, it will come inletted to fit the factory trigger. Once you change to an after market trigger they won't fit. It only take about 5 seconds with a dremel tool to open it up.... Not really necessary to send them all the way back to Kansas City. |
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Post by flagman on Dec 28, 2015 10:41:27 GMT -5
Just curious if you guys know which Manners would compare to a McMillan HTG in size, weight and fore end grip dimensions? I do not want a Varmint style, I'am sold on the HTG, but sometimes McMillan is 6 months out, Ray
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Post by keith on Dec 28, 2015 10:55:49 GMT -5
Just curious if you guys know which Manners would compare to a McMillan HTG in size, weight and fore end grip dimensions? I do not want a Varmint style, I'am sold on the HTG, but sometimes McMillan is 6 months out, Ray MCS-T and MCS-TA |
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Post by scallop on Dec 28, 2015 11:03:20 GMT -5
I ordered a Manners stock on 12/21/15. I was told that it would be 6 months, but it would not surprise me if it takes 10 months.
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Post by keith on Dec 28, 2015 11:06:14 GMT -5
That's what I said earlier. The difference is if you break Tom's stock he'll fix it. I called him and told him my new trigger didn't work in the bottom metal. He sent me a shipping label and had me send two stocks with the same issue to get milled. He also re-inlet one for its new barrel. Cost to me was $Free.99 and I had them back in a week. If you order your stock from Manners with a Remington inlet, or you purchase one of their ready to ship stocks, it will come inletted to fit the factory trigger. Once you change to an after market trigger they won't fit. It only take about 5 seconds with a dremel tool to open it up.... Not really necessary to send them all the way back to Kansas City. Check your privilege. I'm tracking the fix. Nothing takes 5 seconds and Dremels can make things ugly fast. To paraphrase Chad Dixon, good gunsmiths don't let friends use Dremels. I called mostly to see if Tom knew the Calvin Elite didn't work. I told him I had access to a mill but he said I shouldn't have to fix it and wanted to fix the barrel channel on the inventory stock even though I said I could do that too. He offered to either fix them or give me a large discount on my next stock. I didn't ask for either, I had just called to make sure I was about to do the right thing to fix my problem. He also wanted to see how it interfered with the mini-chassis so he could make sure programming gets fixed since it is hard to keep up with every knew product that comes out. |
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Post by deadeyedon89 on Dec 28, 2015 13:22:06 GMT -5
I ordered a Manners stock on 12/21/15. I was told that it would be 6 months, but it would not surprise me if it takes 10 months. When Hank ordered my Manners T4 it was 6 months almost to the date when it showed up. SO WORTH THE WAIT!!! |
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Post by dannoboone on Dec 28, 2015 16:31:13 GMT -5
Uh-huh. I guess Mr. Dixon would not be friends with most of us who bed wood stocks. Perhaps Jeff was exaggerating about the 5 seconds.....it took me 15 but I assumed his experience allowed for faster times.  |
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Post by linebaugh on Dec 28, 2015 19:32:16 GMT -5
I promise he hates me too Danno. I am the king of Dremel and I have a mill and lathe. I'm not going to spend 15 minutes to set up for a 25 second remedy nobody will see.
That is not meant to be argumentative BTW.
To make a quick joke of it. "The Dremel tool man has a tattoo of me on his shoulder."
In the same note the JB weld man also has a tattoo of me on his arm.
And as a disclaimer I do not consider myself a gunsmith or machinist.
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