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Post by elkman1310 on Jul 10, 2020 19:08:28 GMT -5
Well finally got a chance to take old Blue Thunder out to the local range to test the following powders with using 300gr Pittman Aero. ( IMR 4198) ( 10X ) (H4895) and ( IMR 4166 )The loads I shoot in this gun are safe. Blue Thunder wears a 1.250 straight for 28 inches with no taper.
Normally I have always used a 8x32x56 Sightron with .250 clicks but I have that on another gun so I used another 8x32x56 with .125 clicks which might have cause a problem I saw with all my groups at 365 yards. This gun never shot vertical groups like it did today with every load I tried. I could see one load not shooting to good but not four different ones.
73grs Of IMR 4198 with a heavy wool wad and 209A primer shot good enough to hit a deer but it was not inspiring! 88grs of 10X shot 3 shots just over a inch which was the best of the bunch. 105grs of H4895 always shot extremely good in this gun all the way out to 1,000 yards it didn't today every shot went vertical up the paper in a straight line. I made a adjustment to the scope to bring the groups down a little on the paper. The first 3 shots with 105grs of IMR 4166 went into the same ragged hole I thought oh boy that could be a winner so I shot 3 more and they went right back to vertical stringing so I really don't trust this scope maybe the fact that it has .125 clicks that it won't hold under recoil Later this fall I'll swap scopes and see what happens.
The velocity with IMR 4166 came in at 3,025fps which surprised me that it was that much slower because the same charge of H4895 went 3,150fps So IMR 4166 is pretty slow burning in a 45 caliber barrel compared to H4895 Accuracy is plenty good enough for hunting purposes. I didn't shoot any fouling shots between switching powders and that didn't seem to make any real POA difference at 365 yards and I didn't notice any fouling switching back a forth between powders.
Personally I like 10X in my carry gun and I use H4895 in the heavy bench gun. |
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Post by Richard on Jul 10, 2020 20:00:42 GMT -5
So, I shot 101 gr. of 4166 with a 350 gr. bullet getting 3003 fps (LabRadar) and you shot four grains more with a 300 gr. bullet only got 3025? Hmmm?
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Post by buckeye68 on Jul 10, 2020 21:14:39 GMT -5
My NF scope has .125 clicks and it’s holding 105 grains of H4895 with the 325 AeroMax. So far so good.
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Post by buckeye68 on Jul 10, 2020 21:16:20 GMT -5
So, I shot 101 gr. of 4166 with a 350 gr. bullet getting 3003 fps (LabRadar) and you shot four grains more with a 300 gr. bullet only got 3025? Hmmm? Barrel length and the 209 ignition could be the reason? |
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Post by elkman1310 on Jul 10, 2020 21:42:20 GMT -5
No problem with the 209 ignition or the barrel length. IMR 4166 is just to slow with 300gr bullets. I could up the powder charge but really don't care to keep dumping powder down the barrel. Varget gave the highest velocity but there again it took a lot more than 105grs so I stopped using Varget. Even H4895 with a 300gr bullet is on the slow side it works better with 325gr or more bullet weights.
I am just questioning this scope because the other one never gave me vertical groups. In the past when I saw vertical groups it came down to loose scope mounts first then scope failure second. The base is held on with 8-40 screws and its also epoxy on and the scope is mounted with 6 screw tactical rings. The other scope held a 1.5 vertical group at 1,000 yards I doubt this scope will do that.
I have two 12x42x56 NF benchrest scopes one has been rock solid the other a real dog so with the heavy recoil these muzzleloaders put out your going to run into problems sooner or later.
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Post by Richard on Jul 10, 2020 21:52:19 GMT -5
Ok, forgot Carl is still shooting shotgun primers.
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Post by buckeye68 on Jul 11, 2020 2:19:26 GMT -5
Richard’s barrel length is 30”
Carl, what is your barrel length just out of curiosity?
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Post by elkman1310 on Jul 11, 2020 6:47:53 GMT -5
Barrel length is 28 inches so it is more than long enough. And I'll say this loud and clear there is No accuracy advantage of any system over a properly done 209 ignition None! The DI system may produce the highest velocity but for my tastes its painfully slow system to use. Everyone has a choice which is good but please don't try to fool people that the 209 system is not a good system.
I get extremely low deviation numbers and my 1,000 yards tests on real paper targets back that claim up.
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Post by Richard on Jul 11, 2020 9:59:18 GMT -5
Look, I know Elkman is a machinist and makes and tweaks his own breech plugs and bolt nose to give optimum results with the 209 primers and that is fine....but for the average shooter, the 209 systems can be a PIA particularly when upping the charges and bullet weights. The HIS system or DI systems greatly reduce or even totally eliminate these problems. They are "slam dunk!" I have been thru a lot of the 209 systems, including one put together by Elkman and I would never go back. Some worked well with a given bullet and load and at other times with different bullets and loads I would get bulged primers or sticking primers along with leakage! For the past two to three years I have been shooting the Direct Ignition system. I have 50 of these steel modules from Hank and have been reloading them over and over and over and they work just as good as the day they were new. I have shot some with the HIS using the harder modules and they worked out very well! I just think for the amount and loads I shoot, you cannot beat the DI. You get super reliable ignition with higher velocities using less powder.
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Post by hillbill on Jul 11, 2020 10:08:05 GMT -5
Carl
I don't see where anyone is bashing 209?
speed differences between 209, H.I.S. and DI is well known to most here, no surprises to anyone.
accuracy advantage to either system? NA
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Post by buckeye68 on Jul 11, 2020 13:35:36 GMT -5
Not bashing or questioning the 209 vs DI vs HIS at all. Not even questioning the vertical stringing your getting.
I guess I was wanting to understand the difference between your FPS and Richards FPS.
I enjoyed reading your post and the information from your post.
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Post by Kyle on Jul 11, 2020 13:57:35 GMT -5
Carl have you ruled out that the scope is not slipping in the rings?
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Post by thumbhole on Oct 10, 2020 23:20:20 GMT -5
I read a post from you using 10X powder a couple of years back and wanted to try some, now that's all I shoot. I love 10X powder! Thank you for sharing your information.
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