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Post by 1holeaddict on Oct 12, 2019 17:06:13 GMT -5
I am new to this forum and would would like to thank you in advance for your help.
Just shot my CVA PARAMOUNT for the first time today. I shot the recommended load of 140 by volume / 98 grains by weight. I gotta say that it will pack shots on top of each other at 100 yards!!
Sighted in 3" high at 100 yards as the book states. This is supposed to be a 200 yard zero. I moved over to 200 yards and every shot fell 3" low of the bull. This is a 6" drop from 100 yards to 200 yards.
I have a feeling they are advertising off a false BC of .452 for the ELR. From all the posts im reading its true BC is around .330.
I loaded up some 150 V loads also but after seeing the accuracy of the 140 V load at 100 yards i did not even shoot them.
Anyone else have any experience with the Paramount??
What are your thoughts?
TY
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Post by joelmoney on Oct 12, 2019 18:21:49 GMT -5
Sorry no help here. I think if you are 3” high at 100 and 3” low at 200 in my book that make 9” of drop. WOW. Would you happen to know what your velocity is with 140v loads? Thank for the information!
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Post by encore50a on Oct 13, 2019 5:22:33 GMT -5
On another site I found where one owner reported his velocity.
"Here's what I'm currently shooting through my gun.
Powerbelt 280 grain ELR
105 grains by weight of Blackhorn 209
CCI No. 200 Large rifle primers
This gave an average muzzle velocity of 2313 fps with an ES of 10 fps using a Labradar. Tried CCI No. 250 Magnum large rifle primers and the muzzle velocity averaged 2425 fps but ES went up to 50 fps so will be sticking with the large rifle primers."
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Post by 1holeaddict on Oct 13, 2019 7:23:46 GMT -5
On another site I found where one owner reported his velocity. "Here's what I'm currently shooting through my gun. Powerbelt 280 grain ELR 105 grains by weight of Blackhorn 209 CCI No. 200 Large rifle primers This gave an average muzzle velocity of 2313 fps with an ES of 10 fps using a Labradar. Tried CCI No. 250 Magnum large rifle primers and the muzzle velocity averaged 2425 fps but ES went up to 50 fps so will be sticking with the large rifle primers. Are you sighted 3" high at 100 yards? Have you shot it at 200 yards and if so is it a 200 yard zero? |
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Post by encore50a on Oct 13, 2019 10:09:41 GMT -5
On another site I found where one owner reported his velocity. "Here's what I'm currently shooting through my gun. Powerbelt 280 grain ELR 105 grains by weight of Blackhorn 209 CCI No. 200 Large rifle primers This gave an average muzzle velocity of 2313 fps with an ES of 10 fps using a Labradar. Tried CCI No. 250 Magnum large rifle primers and the muzzle velocity averaged 2425 fps but ES went up to 50 fps so will be sticking with the large rifle primers. Are you sighted 3" high at 100 yards? Have you shot it at 200 yards and if so is it a 200 yard zero? Not my rifle so I can't help with that. Most shooters I know zero at 100, then determine the actual drops at range. You could use that information and throw it into JBM to get an approximate. Running it through JBM with a .330 bc @ 2300fps ………. THIS IS APPROXIMATE. Only actual shooting will determine your actual drops.  |
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Post by 1holeaddict on Oct 14, 2019 10:15:07 GMT -5
 Here is the updated chart that tech service just sent to me. looks like they mis advertised the ballistics of the gun in their manual. I am a little confused by the info. A 100 yard zero drops 6.9" at 200 If i move that point of impact up 3.5" at 100 the chart shows it to be a 200 yard zero. That is only a 3.5" drop. How does the drop go from 6.9" to only 3.5" by moving the point of impact. Am i missing something here? TY Attachments:
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Post by hunter on Oct 14, 2019 16:42:02 GMT -5
With the gun sighted in 3.5" high at 100, it would be 7" high at 200 so if it drops to zero, that would be 7" of drop
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Post by buckeye68 on Oct 14, 2019 17:15:40 GMT -5
IMO, If your happy with the groups your shooting the hard part is over. I would zero in at 100 yards and work up your own drop chart.
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Post by joelmoney on Oct 14, 2019 17:18:23 GMT -5
As Hunter said. If you were to use a laser and plot a straight line to 500 yards. If you then point that laser 2” high at 100 yards it shout be 4” high at 200 6” high at 300 8” high at 400 and 10” high at 500.
It is the same as going to range with a new gun. If you shoot 25 yards and your 2” low you move crosshairs 8 MOA up
Bucket 68 I completely agree!
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Post by 12point on Oct 14, 2019 20:27:44 GMT -5
This is why I decided to go with one of Hankins Scout 2 builds along with blow back from the ignition of the Paramounts I saw in the videos.
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Post by doug136 on Oct 15, 2019 21:22:44 GMT -5
1 hole
Your not thinking correct . Kinda hard for me to explain . With a 100 yard zero your bullet will drop approximately 6 inches to 200 yards. ( I am honestly thinking more like 7)This is because your bullet is sighted in at 100 . It has to do with the rainbow effect every bullet has . The bullet is actually dropping due to gravity as soon as it leaves the bore .
With a 200 yard zero you will be approximately 3 inches high at 100 yards . This is because your actual zero is 200 yards. Your bullet is high at 100 yards because the bullet is still climbing to get to to the 200 zero .
I am horrible explaining this stuff . I hope this makes a little sense . There are much smarter guys like ( Kyle , Pittman bullets ) that can explain much better .
George ( encore50 ) I find it very hard to believe that guy shooting the Paramount gained 100 FPS by switching Large Rifle Primers . That has not been the case with any of my guns changing primers . Richard on this board has done extensive testing with Magnum Large Rifle primers vs Standard Large Rifle primers . Not saying the guy is lying just not correct .
I figured the drops with velocities from 2300 to 2350 . With the bullet having .290 to .330 BC. Guessing the actual BC being close to .3 . The numbers I gave you should be very close .Just need to shoot the gun to confirm your drops . Out to 200 yards drops should be very close with a 100 yard zero or a 200 yard zero . After 200 yards is when things will start to get tricky with your speed and BC .
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Post by doug136 on Oct 15, 2019 21:53:41 GMT -5
One more thing 1hole . I mainly shoot Blackhorn 209 . The reason the techs velocities are off is because 140 grains of Blackhorn 209 is closer to 105 grain by weight not 98 grains . 5 grains by weight will normally increase your velocity by about 50 FPS . Additional 50fps will get you closer to the advertised velocities. Western powder states Blackhorn 209 should be measured by volume . I kinda sorta agree with that . Measuring loads by volume if done correctly will be within .2 tenths of a grain by weight . .2 tents is nothing when dealing with Blackhorn . Lol although I still weigh every load for myself .
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Post by encore50a on Oct 16, 2019 5:52:51 GMT -5
................ George ( encore50 ) I find it very hard to believe that guy shooting the Paramount gained 100 FPS by switching Large Rifle Primers . That has not been the case with any of my guns changing primers . Richard on this board has done extensive testing with Magnum Large Rifle primers vs Standard Large Rifle primers . Not saying the guy is lying just not correct ….. Doug, I can't verify the guys data one way or another, its just what the shooter indicated he got when shooting while using his labradar. Back when BH first became available, there were a number of shooters that mentioned that when changing 209 primers (standard to magnum) they noticed a change in their POI, although not so much their group size. But again, that was with 209 primers. I believe 1hole is putting to much emphasis on what CVA posts in their manual, or their ballistics information. What velocities they may get from a test barrel compared to a production barrel can vary greatly. I think we both can confirm that by comparing the data that Western provides and comparing it to our real life data. I would never take data published by any production manufacturer as accurate. It might be close, but for the type of shooting I know you do and what I look for myself, it wouldn't be close to acceptable. The only way to be absolutely sure, is to zero the rifle at 100yds, then shoot longer ranges and determine the actual drops. Then, even that can change somewhat under certain conditions. |
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Post by doug136 on Oct 16, 2019 9:00:09 GMT -5
Absolutely !
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Post by GMB54-120 on Oct 16, 2019 10:50:11 GMT -5
Exactly
Pick a zero you want to use and go from there. Calculated vs real world is not gunna matchup a lot of the time. They want to sell bullets and will fudge the numbers anyway they can get away with. Profit margin is huge on mass produced stuff like that. When the ELR was first announced they claimed a .450ish BC and we all knew it was way high. It didnt take long for real world reviews to prove it and CVA to back pedal.
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Post by buckeye68 on Oct 16, 2019 16:43:37 GMT -5
Another thing to remember is where you live plays a big part in the BC of the bullet.
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