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Post by speedrackin on Nov 28, 2015 8:34:40 GMT -5
Last Saturday was the opener here in NY . at 730 am i nice 8pt (NY deer ) walked 40 yards in front of me thru the beaver swamp i hunt. i couldn't get a clear shot and didn't want to push the bullet thru the brush ( although now i wished i did). I lost him in the brush and let the hammer down . all of a sudden he spooked out of the brush and loped across swamp i new it was 140 across and he would stop or slow down before he exited . As he did he slightly quartered away at around 120 ish almost completely stopped cross hairs behind his shoulder i squeezed he slowed more slipped up the knoll out of site .i waited an hour and a half found blood trked about 200 yrds no blood . Bumped out of bed .....another guy missed him back in swamp ... no blood . without snow and blood had no idea where he went in swamp . I looked for 2 days more no deer. friend called me yesterday morning ....... found him . bullet hit him about 3rd last rib on left side and exited above shoulder out of his neck same side . my guess is he turned ever so slightly as bullet hit him and went down his side .....probably barely caught an artery in neck and slowy died . Im bummed but at least i kno he isnt a cripple . i haven't lost faith in BEs just think in maybe 270 mh mite be a better choice? Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2015 9:15:31 GMT -5
Glad you got him. Hate for one not to be found. Good job!
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Post by hillbill on Nov 28, 2015 10:42:53 GMT -5
while some might disagree the BE was never designed to be used on game at smokeless speeds, just one opinion here but for broad side shot or quartering shots the 275 match hunter is a better choice.
It sounds like it wouldn't have mattered considering the bullet path, I too hate to lose an animal, at least you will no longer be wondering what happened..
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Post by speedrackin on Nov 28, 2015 12:38:14 GMT -5
im not sure what speed this gun is at 29" barrel 56 grn 4198 HIS ignition any ideas on speed ? ..... the deer i killed last yr with the 275 BE was quartered at me slightly 60 yrds bullet never exited ..which i like let the animal absorb it all put a hole like a golf ball in boiler room it the grd dead . Im guessing the 15 thoudands jacket really blows up mushrooms fast is part of the issue ill probably switch over to the MH for this reason .
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Post by rojo23 on Nov 28, 2015 18:33:29 GMT -5
I am with Bill, I have only shoot 1 doe with a BE. It left a softball size entry hole. It looked like a bomb went off in the deer. Fairly small doe, about 40 yards. My gun is shooting about 2950 fps, so it exploded on impact. The deer never twitched but I will not be using them again for hunting situations. I have switched over to the match hunter, but I have not had the chance at a deer with my sml this year. Glad you found your deer.
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Post by deadeye on Nov 28, 2015 19:32:14 GMT -5
im not sure what speed this gun is at 29" barrel 56 grn 4198 HIS ignition any ideas on speed ? ..... the deer i killed last yr with the 275 BE was quartered at me slightly 60 yrds bullet never exited ..which i like let the animal absorb it all put a hole like a golf ball in boiler room it the grd dead . Im guessing the 15 thoudands jacket really blows up mushrooms fast is part of the issue ill probably switch over to the MH for this reason . 56gns h4198/275be speeds should be around 2450fps.... the faster they are the more volatile. |
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Post by speedrackin on Nov 28, 2015 20:26:59 GMT -5
as soon as season is over ill borrow my friends chrono and go to club and do some velocity cks ill run some 225 ftx and 250 ftx and also the parkers 250 and 275 along with maybe up to 58 / 59 grns of 4198 . ive seen some good reviews on the ftx bullets ... but these parkers are accurate .....and that carries alot of weight with me . MH bullets runnin over 2bucks a bullet im not gonna kill alot of paper with those
just looked in hornady book ftx 225 250 velocity ranges are 900 - 2200 so most likely will plink with these and hunt with MH parkers thanks for all the input guys
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2015 21:53:08 GMT -5
I set my boys sml up with a straight load of 40g 4759 which should be around 2100fps shooting the 250 FTX, next year I might bump it up to 43 or 45 grains to see where is at but not sure I will because of how accurate it is.
Honestly for a 300 yard gun/bullet you can't beat the 250 FTX even for a deer thumper. Again I know people will disagree with me but I have yet to have one fail on me. Yeah the match hunters are nice and they shoot very accurate in my rifle but they run $2.50 a bullet when you figure in shipping. Unless your shooting 400+ yards I wouldn't recommend them because of the price tag. If your worried about penitration with the 250 try the 300 sst. The Barnes in both those sizes work very well also just favor the Hornady because I can get them locally and the run .50ยข cheaper than the Barnes.
Hornady FTX/SST do have thicker jackets than the BE's as well.
Good luck how ever you decide to run!
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gar
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Post by gar on Nov 29, 2015 6:28:13 GMT -5
I'm not sure in this instance that it was bullet choice. I have seen these results from archery equipment and from shotgun slugs and from rifles. It is an unfortunate combination of angle, deflection, and just plain hitting the ribs just right or should I say wrong. A half inch farther forward or rearward and the projectile tracks straight and true and dumps the deer right there. I've seen numerous examples of these angled shots where the bullet or broadhead never enters the internal cavity on deer. some exit the same side they were shot on and some are pass throughs. I believe this is no fault of the operator or the bullet, just dumb luck.
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Post by Hank on Nov 29, 2015 11:10:46 GMT -5
Speedrackin..
There is no such bullet as a 270 MH. The 270 grain bullet Parker makes is called an E-Max and it is built on the same jacket the BE bullets are built on so going to that bullet will not help you in an exact same situation, it will only give you better BC not better performance.
You all know I have been a fan of the BE bullets for years and I have shot numerous deer with them., mostly doe but I have also shot a few good size buck and all but one of them was instantly dead, I had one doe run abut 40 yards this year but all others except for a big bodied buck have been DRT. The buck that ran off and I almost lost was not because of the bullet choice but the bullet placement. it wouldn't have mattered what bullet I shot him with, he would have still ran off.
With any bullet choice, shot placement is critical. Don't swear off the BE's because of one bad outcome. Like Gar said 1/2 inch forward or backward from the point of impact and the results could have been very different. And had the deer been turned just slightly different the outcome would have been different.
Plenty of bullet choices out there, all are perfectly capable of killing deer, just depends on where and how you hit them....
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Post by itneverends22 on Nov 29, 2015 13:10:52 GMT -5
speedrackin,
The same thing happened to my boy opening day, shot a great 8 point 7:04 am using 240 xtp ,100 gr by volume BH 209 ,the deer dropped in its tracks, and laid there 25 yds away for 35 mins, my boy took pics of deer on ground, and stayed in his stand wanting to fill his doe tag, looked over and buck was gone!! same shot as yours quartering away,never found the buck, in swamp,I agree with jeff, we have put alot of deer down with the xtp"s, shot placement, is key.. no ones fault, just Happens in hunting!! were you able to salvage anything, after being there for 3 days? it was warm..
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Post by Hank on Nov 29, 2015 13:20:55 GMT -5
And a friend of mine lost a good buck this year shooting a 270 Winchester. He said his shot looked good, the deer dropped in its tracks so he thought it was dead. He went to get his fourwheeler and when he came back 10 minutes later it was gone. Never did find it...
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Post by itneverends22 on Nov 29, 2015 13:33:40 GMT -5
And a friend of mine lost a good buck this year shooting a 270 Winchester. He said his shot looked good, the deer dropped in its tracks so he thought it was dead. He went to get his fourwheeler and when he came back 10 minutes later it was gone. Never did find it... OH yeah!! that happened to me also!!! since then, now I always go directly to deer, to be sure!! before leaving to get the wheeler.. |
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Post by schunter on Nov 30, 2015 10:03:56 GMT -5
Glad you found your buck. I love the 275 BE but only hunt with it using BH209 not at smokeless speed. I have killed three deer with the 250 FTX this year and it has done a good job maybe not text book but cant argue with the results and I believe they are very close in accuracy to the BE and much cheaper.
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Post by speedrackin on Nov 30, 2015 22:05:40 GMT -5
Don't know why i called the E Max an MH ... brain fart i guess, I'll stick with the BE 275 bullets out of that gun , Accuracy is #1 and those shoot the best so its press on . Thanks for all the input its great to have such a vast amount of knowledge just at the touch of a key board . Thanks again Guys
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Post by mike on Dec 5, 2015 10:54:01 GMT -5
Hey all,
I had a phone conversation yesterday evening with Bob Parker regarding bullet recommendations for hunting with a high velocity SPML. Before speaking with him I was prepared to order the 275 BE. Bob immediately advised me that for shooting game, the BE bullet at higher velocity will "grenade" after impact. He said it will be worse at shorter distances, for instance 100 yards, as compared to 400 yards after some velocity and energy have been shed. Bob stated that it will kill game, because the "grenade" effect will do a whole lot of internal damage. He added that, depending on distance, animal and shot placement; the BE bullet will enter at 1-1/2" diameter and may exit at 6" diameter.
Bob assumed I am using the SPML simply for trophy hunting and with no concern about damage to the animals meat, I should be fine with the BE bullet. I told Bob that I do eat the meat of the game I kill and am concerned about the tissue damage the BE will cause. He said in that case to not shoot the animal in the shoulder or anywhere near the hind quarters. I commented that I always try to shoot animals with a broadside behind shoulder lung shot.
Bob said the better hunting choice is the Match/Hunter. He added that besides better accuracy, the bullet will not "grenade" like the BE. I ordered a larger quantity of MH bullets and 20 BE bullets to allow me to get my new Hankins SPML on paper and shoot a few groups to compare to what the MH bullet will achieve.
I guess the gist of what I was told, all pertaining to high velocity shooting, is the BE is for shooting paper and game where there is no concern about meat damage and the MH is for ultimate accuracy when shooting paper and maintaining mass when shooting game.
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Post by linebaugh on Dec 5, 2015 11:40:25 GMT -5
Keep in mind all bullets do funny things from time to time regardless of what wizbang construction they may have. I bet most all of us have seen some strange things from time to time under hunting situations.
Another food for thought is no matter how trained the eye sometimes things are not what they seem. Same as above but how many would have swore they hit a deer in X spot and recovered that animal with an impact in a much different position. The human eye is a wonderful thing but it's not without flaws from time to time.
I shot a buck during archery season this year that was hit by a car and in incredibly poor shape. I was trying to be an ethical sportsman and do the right thing but I was so focused on the proper kill shot I did not see the single tiny branch I hit. That branch was about 5 yards from the deer and about 25 yards from me. I released to what I thought would be a perfect hit and the arrow entered a nearly broadside deer far behind the ribs and exited near the off shoulder.
I was able to see the arrow as the deer hobbled off and it made me sick. Luckily that deer died in about 50 yards but I none the less felt like a pile-o-chit for a while afterwards. So much for doing the right thing I guess.
At any rate if you hunt long enough it's gonna happen. I'm not endorsing or discounting any bullet but I do see people condem a bullet all too often based on a single incident. Sounds like you may have just had one of those inevitable bad things happen but you did the right thing by trying your best to rectify the situation. Congrats on a great deer and thanks for sharing your story.
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