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Post by doug136 on Jan 9, 2017 21:36:29 GMT -5
I bought Knight that has a 209 conversion . I have been having some problems with blow by . I started measuring primers and experimenting with different primers . Federal,CCI,Chitti ( I'm sure that's wrong ) and Winchester s. I'm getting blow by with everything but the Winchester s. They seal perfect . Sides front everywhere . I know most guys say to use Federal s but these Winchester s seal perfact. I would think a perfect sealing Winchester would be better than a hot leaking Federal ? Correct ? What's the problem with the Winchester s?
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Jan 9, 2017 21:41:03 GMT -5
Flame time.....lol. The winchesters are the only 209's thwart round. That's why they seal so well. They are all I use. Properly fitted they seal just like you say. I fit my plugs individually to fit the Winchester . Never had a failure with them and H4198......ever.
drop
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Post by doug136 on Jan 9, 2017 21:52:19 GMT -5
Well this gun will be shooting Blackhorn but I really don't think it will make a difference . The Winchester s sealing correct seems to gets better ignition than my leaking Federal primers. Just seems like guys bash Winchester primers and I'm curious why ? I mean these primers are coming out perfect !
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Post by elkman1310 on Jan 9, 2017 22:07:52 GMT -5
Doug all you can do is try them. If the Win 209 lights BH209 every time with good accuracy problem solved. They are milder in burn rate compared to CCI Mag and Federal 209A I have switched over to strictly Federals. The only ignitions problems I have ever had cam from using Win 209 primers after a couple times of cleaning out a barrel that was enough for me. I also want my plugs to be setup to use CCI or Federal primers I can't make all three work because of the step design of the Win 209 primer.
If the Win 209 don't work then you might have a problem. I don't know how much caming force that Knight bolt has compared to a Remington setup. I don't believe Knight uses a press fit like I do another builders of 209 guns. Since the Knight was still designed for black powder use only they have never sealed up very well. If it don't work sell it.
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Post by doug136 on Jan 9, 2017 22:59:36 GMT -5
No way to headspace . Either different plug or shims. I'll just have to do some more playing .
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Post by 150class on Jan 9, 2017 23:06:52 GMT -5
"Plunger" type firing pin or disc gun?
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Post by bestill458 on Jan 10, 2017 8:02:18 GMT -5
Winchester will work fine and if seals definitely a plus.
If you want to use federal209a i can simply refit a little longer plug and trade you for yours no cost involved. Ive recently found a couple rifles that the bolt retaining pin makes contact before bolt and gives a false headspace measurement.
But Winchester will fire blackhorn flawlessly with no problem if bullet fit is proper and im sure you have that covered.
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Post by doug136 on Jan 10, 2017 9:25:40 GMT -5
Thanks Jeff . My main concern was if Winchester s would ignite Blackhorn ok . The Winchester s seal perfect . I'm not worried about the cost or want a new plug . Just was concerned if there is a problem with Winchester primers . How many different length plugs do you have ?
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Post by doug136 on Jan 10, 2017 9:26:38 GMT -5
Bolt gun 150
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Post by schunter on Jan 10, 2017 10:07:38 GMT -5
W209's are fine with BH209 just keep the flame channel clean. I have shot 20-25 shots during a range session with W209's in a Mountaineer and Ultra Lite without cleaning the flame channel. The flame channel will be reduced by about 50% by the end of the session but still had good ignition.
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Jan 10, 2017 11:24:15 GMT -5
Doug
as mentioned previously just keep your flame channel clean and your primer pocket also. Clean your primer pocket with a Qtip and a little carbon remover. Don't remove any metal if it seals this well. All my guns seal this well with 209 Winchester primers. Call me sometime and I will explain my fitting and polishing technique. If you have a proper circumference fit you don't need any "crush" and I am positive that the surface area crush isn't as much as the circumference surface area fit. I have zero leakage and my primers come out with my fingers. Shoot me a Pm if you would like my number and we can talk about it.
Drop
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Post by bestill458 on Jan 10, 2017 12:12:28 GMT -5
Doug as mentioned previously just keep your flame channel clean and your primer pocket also. Clean your primer pocket with a Qtip and a little carbon remover. Don't remove any metal if it seals this well. All my guns seal this well with 209 Winchester primers. Call me sometime and I will explain my fitting and polishing technique. If you have a proper circumference fit you don't need any "crush" and I am positive that the surface area crush isn't as much as the circumference surface area fit. I have zero leakage and my primers come out with my fingers. Shoot me a Pm if you would like my number and we can talk about it. Drop The knight rifle has no camming action to pull primer out of pocket so if primer pocket fit o.d. of primer once firing very difficult to open bolt. Knight are setup with crush seal only and primer pocket i.d. is .244 so clearance slip fit of primer. Knight has had some problems with headspace tolerances. |
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Post by doug136 on Jan 10, 2017 12:19:45 GMT -5
I don't think there is any way to headspace a Knight unless you put shims in the plug or a different plug . Is that correct Bestill ?
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Post by doug136 on Jan 10, 2017 12:24:47 GMT -5
They only reason I'm a little concerned about using Winchester primers is because I normally clean between shots . I was afraid by doing so I might leave a little moisture in the breech area and thought the hotter Federals may be better but then again I just need to experiment. So far my initial testing shows that these Knights shoot better dirty . If that's the case I have no problems using Winchester s. Sorry I know this is a Smokless forum but really like you guys imput.
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Post by bestill458 on Jan 10, 2017 12:26:28 GMT -5
Exactly rite and im not a shim fan but does work. I would say a .005 shim would fix your federal209a issue but thats a bandaid.
Another issue with knight is headspaces off bolt handle and with oversize bolt raceway it cocks bolt ever so slightly and always shows leak on one side of primer.
So to get good seal take at least.003 crush to .005
Knight tolerances are basically awful
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Post by bestill458 on Jan 10, 2017 12:31:32 GMT -5
Only place i see advantage to federal209a is extreme cold and blackhorn.
My brother shoots Winchester and cleans every shot
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Post by hillbill on Jan 10, 2017 12:54:42 GMT -5
If bullet fit is good and seal is good Winchester work fine, I have used them in Ohio close to 0 and the deer died just fine with no issues. You can gain speed with the mags but they need to be spaced off the nose.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 10, 2017 13:58:55 GMT -5
Crush of atleast .003 using a Lehigh type plug and Win209 works fine even sabotless or with conicals. You may get a better burn with a mag primer under some conditions but it will ignite. I use a .060x.460 veggie wad just for some added insurance in my 45s. Year before last i used a 350gr soft lead conical sized .001 over lands and a veggie wad. Rifle sat for over a month before being shot.
It went boom without any hesitation.
My new bushing plug has about a .006 crush with a Win and about a .003 with a Fed209A. I have no doubt it will work just as well with either primer. Both come out spotless and no sticking.
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Post by doug136 on Jan 10, 2017 14:44:34 GMT -5
Great, as always you guys are very helpful . So far with what testing I've done with the Winchester s they have worked fine . All of my shooting has been sabot less with either the Accumax or BEs. My Federals and CCIs are doing exactly what Bestill said . I get a dirty primer on one side . I have 2 different Knights I'm playing with . Next year Friendship is gonna have a Manufacture class besides a Open class . This is the reason I'm playing with these Knights . I really appreciate all the imput !
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