|
|
Post by outlaw on Nov 17, 2016 18:01:09 GMT -5
finally gonna get rid of plastic. i hear smooth can be easier to get dialed in accurately but doesnt neccesarily provide the best weatherproof seal. whereas full form can take a little more work to get shooting good but it better seals the bore thus protecting the charge behind it. then luke recommends smooth because pacnor barrels have a flakey track record with fullform...but i see several guys getting good results with ff 45 pacnors. i dont care how time consuming or tedious either may be. i want the one that provides the most consistent accurate loads. inputs please.....
|
|
|
|
Post by elkman1310 on Nov 17, 2016 18:15:43 GMT -5
Go smooth. I have tried both and I will not waste my time trying to full form bullets. I think most everyone will agree you can get outstanding accuracy by simply smooth sizing the bullet. And if you don't have a piece of your barrel to donate for a full form die you can't get one made since no two barrels are exactly the same.
|
|
|
|
Post by outlaw on Nov 17, 2016 18:18:54 GMT -5
i have barrel drop...been hangin on to it for three years
|
|
|
|
Post by schunter on Nov 17, 2016 20:20:19 GMT -5
Smooth form with either veggie or wool wads will give excellent accuracy to 300 yds easily
|
|
|
|
Post by Kyle on Nov 17, 2016 22:11:40 GMT -5
Smooth form is easy to do and produces great accuracy. It's simple and it works.
|
|
|
|
Post by elkman1310 on Nov 18, 2016 7:53:28 GMT -5
I have shot and posted many good groups at 600 yards with smooth form bullets and I doubt if a full form bullet would out shoot a smooth formed bullet at that distance. I always use a wool wad over the powder charge some guys use the veggie wad they do help seal off the powder charge and in most cases you will get better accuracy and more consistent velocities using a wad. Unless you only want to shoot .458 caliber bullets why even consider going to a full form die setup. All smooth form dies start off using a .452 diameter bullet and size it down to what ever diameter your barrel requires to get a nice slip fit. It is the way to go.
|
|
|
|
Post by dannoboone on Nov 18, 2016 12:06:01 GMT -5
For sure, there is a learning curve with full form. I have three FF dies and
there is a different "trick" for each of them. I do not have a smooth form,
so cannot compare. Seems like everyone who has one likes it.
If I had it to do over again, I would get Jeff's combo die and have the
best of both worlds. (Got mine prior to knowing Jeff made them.)
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Nov 19, 2016 21:53:33 GMT -5
I have quite a few smooth dies both fixed and adjustable and I have two full form dies. The full form dies just "collect dust!" No one, I mean no one has ever proven that FF bullets shoot better than properly sized and fitted smooth sized bullets. I will say this...........if you are shooting some very mild load with out a sabot, full forming might work well for you since these bullets need a fairly stout load to get them to fatten up or "obturate!" IF they do not grab the rifling because they did not fatten up, they will be inaccurate. But then........................why not just use sabots for the anemic loads?
|
|
|
|
Post by doug136 on Nov 21, 2016 9:47:26 GMT -5
Richard why is it that some are so bent on full forming ? I can't see the gain either, maybe sub calibers because there is not the bullet selection? But even then I've seen the groups you have shot with Barnes bullets ? I don't think bullets come much harder ?
|
|
|
|
Post by schunter on Nov 21, 2016 11:11:42 GMT -5
The Barnes are actually annealed and fairly soft.
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Nov 21, 2016 17:34:25 GMT -5
I think it is a "min-set!"................If there is rifling on the bullet, it must be more accurate?  The fact is.............If you get the bullet to fatten up real quick and it grabs the rifling and fully rotates it, it will leave the muzzle as an accurate projectile. The key factors are the fit of the bullet and driving load. Just my opinion derived from shooting many, many thousands of bullets and loads. |
|
|
|
Post by aldeerhunter on Nov 21, 2016 18:21:47 GMT -5
For sure, there is a learning curve with full form. I have three FF dies and there is a different "trick" for each of them. I do not have a smooth form, so cannot compare. Seems like everyone who has one likes it. If I had it to do over again, I would get Jeff's combo die and have the best of both worlds. (Got mine prior to knowing Jeff made them.) Based on what I have read, the combo die only allows for either smooth or full forming. Have I missed something? |
|
|
|
Post by aldeerhunter on Nov 21, 2016 18:28:20 GMT -5
I think it is a "min-set!"................If there is rifling on the bullet, it must be more accurate? The fact is.............If you get the bullet to fatten up real quick and it grabs the rifling and fully rotates it, it will leave the muzzle as an accurate projectile. The key factors are the fit of the bullet and driving load. Just my opinion derived from shooting many, many thousands of bullets and loads. Richard, would you share your thoughts about the statements made in the following link on the blog at Kinetic Performance regarding full forming v. smooth forming: www.kineticperformancellc.com/blog/index.php?page=3
He did some unstandardized testing. Wondering what your and the other vets thoughts are about the outcome, conclusions and assertions made.
Thanks
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 19:08:26 GMT -5
For sure, there is a learning curve with full form. I have three FF dies and there is a different "trick" for each of them. I do not have a smooth form, so cannot compare. Seems like everyone who has one likes it. If I had it to do over again, I would get Jeff's combo die and have the best of both worlds. (Got mine prior to knowing Jeff made them.) Based on what I have read, the combo die only allows for either smooth or full forming. Have I missed something? A combo die allows for BOTH full and smooth forming with the aid of removable inserts. One is a full form insert made from a short portion of your barrel and the other insert is smooth form made for your caliber. |
|
|
|
Post by hillbill on Nov 21, 2016 19:39:44 GMT -5
Having done a good bit of both smooth and full form I can say that one can make a good argument for both venues.
My best ever 400 yd group was shot with a .442/.451 ( pistol bore) McGowan barrel. That barrel shot everything well, was it just a hummer or is there something to the full form thing?
Having put together several pistol bore barrels I can tell you that they all shot very well, I have also fullformed a good bit of .458 bullets with good results.
Am I saying full form is a better mousetrap? NO, but I'm not ready to write it off as being just as good and maybe? No I won't say it.
Matter of fact I have a new 18 twist Kreiger .442/.450 on the bench waiting for an action, if I didn't think there was something to the full form thing it wouldn't be there.
When guys ask me which way to go I always tell them to go smooth, it works and it's easier, especially for new guys.
Obviously smooth forming can be very accurate, it's proven over and over.
Full form can be just as accurate? More so?
I'm not going to go out on a limb and state it's better but believe me, I know it works very well because I've been doing it for a long time.
It takes some patience and practice and it you can't do one and don't have the other?
Stay with smooth.
|
|
|
|
Post by linebaugh on Nov 21, 2016 20:32:07 GMT -5
If you already have a rifle then the answer comes down to what bullet you want to shoot. If you like a particular .458 or .452-2 then the answer becomes obvious. Or perhaps you think one is better than the other. If that's the case follow your heart as I doubt there is much difference.
I'm not sure one will be "more" accurate than the other and sizing may or may not be any harder one than the other. And this is coming from a guy who would have told you smooth was the way to go due to ease of accuracy and ease of use.
My latest build is shooting FF annealed barnes lights out and everything about it is easy peasy. The bullets go through the die easily, they index easily, they shoot extremely well and they are a boat tail to boot. This is a Rock Creek barrel and my own die design with no wads. Kind of goes to show you, me anyway, that you just never know.
|
|
