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Post by speedrackin on Oct 31, 2016 5:51:09 GMT -5
While , contemplating on getting into a tree stand i was cruisin the reloading manuals of yesterday (older ones) while contemplating on puttin a 35 Whelen barrel on an Encore . I had asked Hank weeks ago about the .358 ..... primer module , plug all the same as the HIS ignition . All reloading manuals show 4198 as a propellant , bullets range from 180 grn spitzer to 225 grn round nose and a 200 FTX from Hornady. The only down fall ....... .072 shy of being legal in most states for big game Any other thoughts?
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Post by dennis on Oct 31, 2016 6:07:13 GMT -5
A friend of mine has a 35 wheelen barrel for his encore.It will only shoot a 2" group at best with the loads he has tried,but,my experience with my apex ,changing from a 45-70 to ml it is much more accurate as a ml.The .358 would be legal for me here in Ohio.I would check the BC of the bullets to see if it would be good for what you are trying to achieve.
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Post by speedrackin on Oct 31, 2016 6:20:36 GMT -5
BC on a 250 grain spire point as per the hornady book is 383. Dennis i believe ....and i am no expert still considered a novice . The reason your 45\70 got better as a SML is because of bullet sizing , hotter load ? most all factory 45\70 loads are 458 diam bullets i believe we pretty much stick to .452\ 451 and size to fit . we've basically fine tuned the rough edges out of the 45\70 factory load . This may work just as well in the .358 i belive we can hit the 3000fps mark in a break open with this caliber and be safe id have to consult an expert on figuring pressures . again this is only a thought .... i still haven't pulled the trigger on buying the 35 Whelen barrel yet . but I'm damn close 3031 ia also listed  other issue im seeing is bullets avail are .358 land to land dia is normally .350 so sizing could be an issue more research needed ....... |
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.358 SML
Oct 31, 2016 6:37:46 GMT -5
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Post by johnnywadd75 on Oct 31, 2016 6:37:46 GMT -5
Ohio law is .38 cal or bigger for muzzloader?
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Post by dp on Oct 31, 2016 11:56:23 GMT -5
I have a 35 Whelen apex barrel converted over to smokeless using a 209 system. I'm shooting 52 grains of 3031 and 200 grain FTX or Barnes TTSX bullets full formed averaging about 2640 fps so far. I'm still playing with the sizing die and bullet fit but so far I've gotten groups just slightly greater than MOA at 100 yards.
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Post by dp on Oct 31, 2016 11:57:22 GMT -5
I doubt you'll have much luck if you are wanting to smooth form bullets.
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Post by speedrackin on Oct 31, 2016 12:13:00 GMT -5
it is going to be a process at that
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Post by dp on Oct 31, 2016 14:58:25 GMT -5
I lucked up and got my 35 whelen barrel for $75 off ebay so I took the chance of ending up with a paper weight since the cheap barrel offset the cost of having to have the die made. I had to cut the barrel off for the drop and the fluting now runs all the way to the muzzle. It looks neat but was a pain to recrown I was told.
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Post by dennis on Oct 31, 2016 15:03:41 GMT -5
Ohio law is .38 cal or bigger for muzzloader? 38/.357/9mm dia. similar within .001 or.002 I believe so .358 as an ml would be legal as a 38cal. Let us know if you go the .358 as an sml. |
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Post by dp on Oct 31, 2016 15:06:21 GMT -5
Ohio law is .38 cal or bigger for muzzloader? 38/.357/9mm dia. similar within .001 or.002 I believe so .358 as an ml would be legal as a 38cal. Did you find somewhere in the regulations that say the 38/.357/9mm thing? All I've been able to find is the reference to 38 cal being the minimum which .357 or .358 is definitely not. I hope your right but I need some concrete proof if I'm going to carry mine in a few weeks. |
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Post by dennis on Oct 31, 2016 15:18:12 GMT -5
38/.357/9mm dia. similar within .001 or.002 I believe so .358 as an ml would be legal as a 38cal. Did you find somewhere in the regulations that say the 38/.357/9mm thing? All I've been able to find is the reference to 38 cal being the minimum which .357 or .358 is definitely not. I hope your right but I need some concrete proof if I'm going to carry mine in a few weeks. If you measure the bullet diameter and it is at least the same as a 38cal. it is legal as a (muzzleloader).My bad,9mm not large enough dia.,but a 38cal is a .357dia. bullet so .358 is ok in Ohio. |
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.358 SML
Oct 31, 2016 19:23:48 GMT -5
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Post by doug136 on Oct 31, 2016 19:23:48 GMT -5
How many times have any of us been checked on caliber size . Maybe it's just me and all the hunters I know but that has never been the case ? I am so frustrated with Indiana's DNR right now I could care less on caliber size .
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Post by speedrackin on Oct 31, 2016 19:40:28 GMT -5
Doug interesting thought in 46 yrs of hunting ive been cked once in my life for having a plug in my gun duck hunting i have never been cked for anything at all ever . So am i concerned about caliber size not really here in ny i kno people that hunt in shotgun only ares with rifles have been for yrs .. but u can hunt in those shotgun areas with a pistol as long as its a centerfire i believe you can also hunt in rifle areas with any center fire rifle .....hmn isn't that ethical .17hornet or a 17remington now thats a deer rifle . So when it comes to politics and hunting regulations go figure
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.358 SML
Oct 31, 2016 20:17:22 GMT -5
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Post by doug136 on Oct 31, 2016 20:17:22 GMT -5
Ya some of the crap makes no sense at all . I mean it's not like your taking a rifle out in bow season ! ( which I hear shots at dusk during bow season all the time ) Indiana has some dumb caliber changes . You can use a .243 then skips to .30 calibers skipping over 25 /06 ,.270 ect... That makes no sense at all ! I inherited my Dads 25/06 and if I take a hankern to carry that gun I'm gonna ! They have some stupid regulations that make no sense at all . No one ever gets checked for caliber size and if I do get checked and even fined . I'll pay the fine and go on they are not gonna stop me from carrying my father's gun because of a regulation that makes no sense at all ! ! ! Ok ok I'm off the soap box now !
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Post by dennis on Oct 31, 2016 21:14:15 GMT -5
Ya some of the crap makes no sense at all . I mean it's not like your taking a rifle out in bow season ! ( which I hear shots at dusk during bow season all the time ) Indiana has some dumb caliber changes . You can use a .243 then skips to .30 calibers skipping over 25 /06 ,.270 ect... That makes no sense at all ! I inherited my Dads 25/06 and if I take a hankern to carry that gun I'm gonna ! They have some stupid regulations that make no sense at all . No one ever gets checked for caliber size and if I do get checked and even fined . I'll pay the fine and go on they are not gonna stop me from carrying my father's gun because of a regulation that makes no sense at all ! ! ! Ok ok I'm off the soap box now ! Seems like any government agency wants to have their nose so far in our business that they know what we had for breakfast. |
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Post by speedrackin on Nov 1, 2016 6:01:13 GMT -5
wow you here the rifle shots at dusk also just one shot a good sniper never reveals his position with multiple shots ..... but when the 4 wheeler starts up all in the second week of bow season ..... i thought that only goes on in NY.and a 7mm 08 contender in shotgun only areas is perfectly fine ......so we combat that by playin by the rules with a 45 cal sml that can shoot 400 yrds . i which some politician could explain to me why i cant use a 35 cal muzzle loader.
well back to the 356 endeavor the most difficult thing of makin a 35 cal is the sizing of bullets only avail in 358 and we need to get them down to .350 for front end loading
taken from NY dec regulation page
description of various hunting implements
Implement Description
Bow Long (stick), recurve or compound bow with a draw weight in excess of 35 pounds. A legal arrowhead is non-barbed, has 2 or more cutting edges and is at least 7/8 inches wide.
Crossbow Consists of a bow, a string, and either compound or recurve limbs with minimum width of 17 inches (tip of limbs, uncocked), mounted on a stock. The stock shall have a trigger with a working safety that holds the string and limbs under tension until released. It shall have a minimum overall length from the butt of the stock to the front of the limbs of 24 inches and be able to launch a minimum 14 inch arrow/bolt, not including the legal arrowhead. It shall have a draw weight of 100 to 200 pounds.
Muzzleloader Firearm loaded through the muzzle, a minimum bore of .44 inches and shooting a single projectile. Scopes may now be used during the Special Muzzleloading Season in addition to the Regular Big Game Season and the Early Bear Season. See Muzzleloading section of regulations for special requirements during the muzzleloading season.
Handgun* any centerfire pistol or revolver. Barrel length maximum is 16 inches
(NOTE: Possession of handguns in New York State requires a NYS Pistol Permit. New York does not recognize permits issued by other states.)
Shotgun* Must be 20 gauge of larger and fire a single projectile, rifling in the barrel or choke is allowed
Rifle* any centerfire rifle.
* It i
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Post by jims on Nov 1, 2016 7:12:12 GMT -5
In Ohio the muzzleloading rifle must be .38 caliber or larger. You could use a patch or sabot with a smaller diameter in it but the bore must be .38. The risk I see of using something else, lets say you get that huge whitetail and you are checked. If using a 25-06 or a .358 one could lose the deer and the undersized rifle etc. Risky IMO. Also in Ohio pistol cartrides must be .357 or larger.
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Post by dp on Nov 1, 2016 7:50:24 GMT -5
well back to the 356 endeavor the most difficult thing of makin a 35 cal is the sizing of bullets only avail in 358 and we need to get them down to .350 for front end loading Muzzleloader Firearm loaded through the muzzle, a minimum bore of .44 inches and shooting a single projectile. Scopes may now be used during the Special Muzzleloading Season in addition to the Regular Big Game Season and the Early Bear Season. See Muzzleloading section of regulations for special requirements during the muzzleloading season. Are you trying to make 358 muzzleloader or trying to get a .358 bullet to shoot out of a 45 cal using a sabot? If you want a true .358 barrel the sizing dilemma is easy, just have hank or Swinglock make you a full form sizing die using an inch cut off your barrel. If you're trying to sabots I wish you the best of luck but I think you will be chasing your tail to no end. |
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.358 SML
Nov 1, 2016 8:11:09 GMT -5
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Post by doug136 on Nov 1, 2016 8:11:09 GMT -5
Indiana has has that same stupid pistol law for years also . You could hunt with about any caliber Contender you wanted as long as it was a pistol . But not with a rifle stock ? ? ? I wouldn't sweat your .358 build it if you want and I would hunt with it !
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Post by dp on Nov 1, 2016 8:24:11 GMT -5
While the likelihood of getting checked is probably low, you guys hunting in Ohio should be aware if you aren't already that the fines add up extremely quick if the violations deal with a buck that scores 125" or better. There is a formula which I believe is restitution value = ((gross score - 125)2 x $1.65) that gets tacked on to all the other fines.
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