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Post by sasquatch87 on Oct 29, 2016 19:06:32 GMT -5
Hey everyone. I'm new to the forum and wanted to get some opinions on this. I've got a savage 10ml that I've shot the last few years. I'm shooting a 45cal SST in it. Well this year I decided to have a new gun built. It's a 45-70 barrel threaded for a savage breach on an encore frame. I'm wanting to shoot bore sized bullets. I was recommend to get a Lee mold and pour my own 350gr cast conical bullets. I wanted to see if this was a good route to go. Also what percentage of materials and what kinds should I use for the bullets? Also what grain of which powders should I use? I know there's some guys on here with guns built like this and I wanted some input. Thanks a lot
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Post by wtwthunter on Oct 29, 2016 19:31:40 GMT -5
Are wanting to shoot smokeless powder ? If so you may want to go with a copper jacketed bullet like a Pittman accumax or a Parker bullet. Both of these bullets shoot very well. If you choose to shoot one of these bullets you will most likely need a custom sizing die.
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Post by sasquatch87 on Oct 29, 2016 19:38:57 GMT -5
Yes will be shooting smokeless. I was recommended 4198. Don't know if that's the best load but that's what I was told.
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Post by ourway77 on Oct 29, 2016 20:58:17 GMT -5
I have an Encore 45-70 barrel that uses the Savage plug with vent liners I shoot 60 grains 4198 with a 250 grain SST bare bullet with a wad I smooth size the bullets so they go down the barrel with a bit of a tight fit but not as tight where you have to stand on the ram rod. A lot of people recommend 10/4759 50/4198 in cold weather with the same bullet
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Post by hillbill on Oct 29, 2016 21:41:05 GMT -5
anything heavier than a 275 in the Encore would be a no go IMO, a 275 @ 60 grns of 4198 is still pushing it in a factory barrel, again JMO.
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Post by sasquatch87 on Oct 29, 2016 22:24:25 GMT -5
The barrel is a pacnor 22" if that makes a difference. I'm not familiar with smooth sizing bullets could you tell me a little about this. What size do you resize it to? I've just shot sabot SST out of my 10ml and groups are great but it's all you can do to get the bullet down the barrel. Would like something with a tight fit and good accuracy but don't want it so tight it's a struggle to load.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2016 7:45:49 GMT -5
You could shoot the 200sst .40 cal in a harvester light blue sabot....deer killing and less recoil...Also the barnes 195,.40
is another choice...Elk have been killed with that bullet...
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Post by elkman1310 on Oct 30, 2016 7:59:45 GMT -5
You took one step forward but two steps back. If you really want a smokeless muzzleloader with the performance capabilities of a high performance 45 Caliber muzzleloader you need to go to a Bolt action rifle. Either built on a modified Remington M/L action or a Savage M/L action which can use 209 primers or go to a Center fire action and Hanks ignition system.
I am dead set against anyone using a Encore or CVA 45/70 barrel conversion for smokeless powder. You do not have enough barrel steel to have a good margin of safety even at 60grs of powder. Also if that's all the gun will handle you might as well shoot Blackhorn 209 because your velocities are not going to be much better. Granted IMR 4198 won't smoke and is easier to clean.
Also a 22" barrel will not get you a performance improvement that you can get from a longer barrel.
You asked about sizing the bullet if your going to shoot a SST or any other jacketed bullet they must be sized down to they fit your barrel. They will not fit without sizing them. SST bullet measure .4525 in diameter your Pacnor might require a .4500 - .4506 there is a fairly broad range of sizes. You will need a adjustable Swing-Loc smooth sizing die or a Hanks die to do this important step.
Usually most guns like the sized bullet to fit very easily with one hand on the ramrod. Sabots should fit tight. Sized bullets shoot best on the loose side. Everyone on this board will be glad to share their knowledge of smokeless muzzleloaders.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Oct 30, 2016 9:58:59 GMT -5
If you want to shoot lead conicals forget using smokeless. Blackhorn209 works ok with conicals if you do your part. Ive shot quite a few through mine. I like to use a .451 460gr sized .001-.0015 over lands, 2 .060 veggie wads and 60-70gr of BH209 by volume. 80gr will give you right around 1400fps with a 460gr. I would forget the 350gr unless you want to keep it to 70gr or less.
Shoot soft lead too fast and you will lead the barrel in a hurry. Blackhorn also works very well with bullets like the Parker BE and other bullets with a thin jacket and a soft lead core. Over 2100fps is very doable in a custom build.
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Post by sasquatch87 on Oct 30, 2016 21:58:05 GMT -5
Thanks for the info guys. I think the route I'm going to go for the time being is a 200gr .40 SST with a harvester sabot with 60gr 4198. I just want to make sure this load with this bullet will be safe to shoot in the gun. Should everything be fine with this load?
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