|
|
Post by rockchuck on Jul 2, 2016 1:08:07 GMT -5
Hello all, I am new to the board and smokeless ml's too.
There seems to be a lot of knowledge and experience here.
I have been wanting to put together a .416 muzzy based on a lefty rem 700 SA and shoot both smokeless and maybe bh209. I have assembled a few ar15's before and enjoyed that. It sounds like building a muzzy may take more specialized tooling like a lathe, etc though. Sounds like i may need a powder chamber for the .416 too.
What are your thoughts on an average joe being able to put a muzzy together? Doable or not with out more specialized tools/skills?
I have already gathered bullets, powder, a stock, and i have 209 and lrmp primers. Not sure on ignition system yet. Trying to do it somewhat economically as well. I know i will probably need to spring for a bullet sizing die for full forming too.
Thabks for any thoughts or input.
|
|
|
|
Post by tnhunter54 on Jul 2, 2016 3:00:57 GMT -5
First of all welcome to the board, and yes there are several guys here that can help you out with your new build. Hank and hillbill just to name a couple,so good luck with your smokeless gun and be sure to post some pictures of your new gun.
|
|
|
|
Post by keith on Jul 2, 2016 5:53:59 GMT -5
If you have a CF action you have a decision to make up front: do you want to use 209 or LRM primers? If you choose LRM Jeff's system is better than cut down cases. If you choose 209 you need a new bolt or a bolt modification. I'd talk to Luke at Arrowhead. Either way the most economical way is do the work you can by yourself but you are likely paying for a barrel job. Like any custom gun, if you can't figure out where the money is going then ask or don't pay for it because custom find have gotten retarded expensive. I saved $1500 or so on my last one that way and I still have $2600 or so in it and that's with a $900 custom action and $700 McMillan stock. Keep that in mind if your bill looks like mine and you get a $100 stock and pay for upgrades/accessories.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kyle on Jul 2, 2016 7:10:24 GMT -5
Hello all, I am new to the board and smokeless ml's too. There seems to be a lot of knowledge and experience here. I have been wanting to put together a .416 muzzy based on a lefty rem 700 SA and shoot both smokeless and maybe bh209. I have assembled a few ar15's before and enjoyed that. It sounds like building a muzzy may take more specialized tooling like a lathe, etc though. Sounds like i may need a powder chamber for the .416 too. What are your thoughts on an average joe being able to put a muzzy together? Doable or not with out more specialized tools/skills? I have already gathered bullets, powder, a stock, and i have 209 and lrmp primers. Not sure on ignition system yet. Trying to do it somewhat economically as well. I know i will probably need to spring for a bullet sizing die for full forming too. Thabks for any thoughts or input. I would recommend Jeff Hankins to do your build for you. Jeff has the skills, knowledge and state of the art equipment to complete your build. Jeff has 20 plus years of rifle building experience under his belt. He has built one tack driving smokeless muzzleloader for me and is in the process of building another as we speak. The top shooting rifles at every Kentucky Challenge Muzzleloader Shoot have been Hankins Custom Rifles. Jeff's H.I.S. System is very user friendly. The modules will last you the life of your rifle and beyond. You'll never have a stuck 209 primer with a Hankins System. What you will have is an accurate shooting rifle that goes bang every time you pull the trigger! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 9:42:04 GMT -5
Even the most economical break open model will out shoot a black powder or 3/7 gun. Good luck with your build.
|
|
|
|
Post by doug136 on Jul 2, 2016 9:52:45 GMT -5
Amen
|
|
|
|
Post by dannoboone on Jul 3, 2016 12:03:33 GMT -5
What are your thoughts on an average joe being able to put a muzzy together? Doable or not with out more specialized tools/skills? I have already gathered bullets, powder, a stock, and i have 209 and lrmp primers. Not sure on ignition system yet. Trying to do it somewhat economically as well. I know i will probably need to spring for a bullet sizing die for full forming too. .416 and "economically" go together like oil and water. What are you planning on hunting and how far do you plan to shoot? Add barrel drop and muzzle brake to your list. |
|
|
|
Post by hillbill on Jul 3, 2016 12:14:27 GMT -5
I would agree with danno, doing a .416 economically is likely not going to happen, I can tell you they are a beast to shoot if you plan to run it to its true potential. my .416 barrel sits on my bench and never gets installed on my switch barreled gun simply because the .45 can do most anything I need and is easier to deal with, but I also have a .375 for the really long stuff, if not I would likely use the .416 more.
as danno said, fullform die and a brake are a must have as well as a sorbathane shoulder. JMO though.
|
|
|
|
Post by rockchuck on Jul 3, 2016 14:03:45 GMT -5
I am favoring the .416 due to ballistics, hoping to be able to push a CEB 340 or a rocky mountain bullet at somewhere around 2200 fps with bh209 in hopes of a round with enough sauce to take elk at 400-500 yards with plenty of energy. I will be mostly shooting bh209 as smokeless isnt allowed in utah or surrounding states i hunt. I thought i would fiddle wuth smokeless for fun, but it has been pointed out to me that if i do the powder chamber based on a blackhorn volume, i could have problems with smokeless as volumes rin differently. So, maybe i need to set aside that idea if i go for powder chamber. Looking at the .45s ballistics at a similar velocity, i just dont think that will get me there with the lower BC and give me as much energy as i want on target.
|
|
|
|
Post by rockchuck on Jul 3, 2016 14:14:05 GMT -5
Maybe this will help too on the meaning of economical. I am hoping to get a lefty rem 700 barreled action done along with the needed accessories such as a bullet sizing die,colapsable ramrod, loading funnel, bullet starter, jags, brake, etc. Ideallt would like stainless action but lefty can be hard to come by. May just do a cerakote down the line if unavailable for stainless. Hoping to keep price of something like that between $1500 to $2000. Then I can do the bedding/stock work and already have the optics ready to go myself too.
Does that sound realistic on a general price point to those in the know? Or am I way off on pricing?
Thanks for all the input thus far.
I am gonna start reaching out to some of the recommended builders mentioned thus far.
|
|
|
|
Post by rockchuck on Jul 3, 2016 14:15:19 GMT -5
I have to stay above .40 cal in utah so .375 is out unfortunately.
|
|
|
|
Post by hillbill on Jul 3, 2016 14:53:32 GMT -5
a .45 and blackhorn are very doable @ 400 and a little beyond, bestill can fill you in on particulars. I have doubts with blackhorn in a.416 and a .340 CEB? I could be wrong though.
one of the big problems I see is having to shoot full form bullets with blackhorn barrel fouling, generally those two don't go together, again bestill can fill you in on all things blackhorn.
I'm not trying to be negative, just being honest..
|
|
|
|
Post by bowhunter836 on Jul 3, 2016 15:54:17 GMT -5
I cant say enough about the spml that jeff did for me in fact all my rifles are jealous because I use the Hankins build for most everything now! I recommend jeff Hankins for anything muzzleloader related
|
|
|
|
Post by keith on Jul 3, 2016 16:15:29 GMT -5
You can keep a barreled action and accessories in that price range. Ray shoots a BH209 gun for all his ML work on deer and elk and says he feels good to 400yds. I don't think he or Jeff use powder chambers either. I would feel just fine with one of these guns at BH209 velocity with heavier .45 bullets for what you want.
|
|
|
|
Post by bestill458 on Jul 3, 2016 16:17:57 GMT -5
a .45 and blackhorn are very doable @ 400 and a little beyond, bestill can fill you in on particulars. I have doubts with blackhorn in a.416 and a .340 CEB? I could be wrong though. one of the big problems I see is having to shoot full form bullets with blackhorn barrel fouling, generally those two don't go together, again bestill can fill you in on all things blackhorn. I'm not trying to be negative, just being honest.. My personal experience with blackhorn ive had very little luck with fullform bullet and blackhorn powder due to fouling issue. A custom45 with100 gr by weight blackhorn and 325 match hunter smooth form will easily kill to 400 plus yards with moa accuracy. 400 yds takes 13 moa elevation correction and maintain 1600 fps and 1500 lbs of energy. 500 yds takes 19 moa elevation correction and maintain1300 fps and 1300 lbs of energy. Other smooth form bullet such as accumax 325 and 344 bombs will equally do the same. Ive done 2 blackhorn powder chamber guns and will likely never have another. Blackhorn needs cleaner and chamber isa true pain and pperformance gain is minimal. For reference a 100 grain of blackhorn by weight is about all you can efficiently burn. That powder charge is 3.125" long in a 45. Doing the math i believe a .416 with100 gr would be 3.625 long. Always new stuff to try but a 416 is tricky with smokeless then add a powder column and blackhorn and fullform bullet. I really see a huge learning curve and possible headache . |
|
|
|
Post by Hank on Jul 3, 2016 18:13:49 GMT -5
You are correct about finding a left hand Remington 700 action in stainless Steel. It has been a long time since they have made one. The blued left hand actions can be had new and I have built several left hand rifles using that action. Shooting BH209 it would be nice to have a stainless action as it is corrosive and causes rust...
I can build the barreled action for you and stay under you max budget. If you wanted to add a couple hundred we can build it on a Stiller Left hand stainless steel action. Then you get what you really wanted to start with for just a few hundred more dollars.....
Barreled action, muzzle brake, powder funnel, ram rod, and accessories.
I will agree with these guys about the 416,, I have one and although it is accurate, it is much more finicky, harder to load and recoil is hefty...
|
|
|
|
Post by 10gaauto on Jul 3, 2016 19:56:40 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by 10gaauto on Jul 3, 2016 19:59:13 GMT -5
Rockchuck welcome. As for your post.....
New to SML, well SML isn't your ordinary ML deal. There is a lot to learn. Spend some time lurking about and searching the board. Going back through the old threads will give much insight.
As for "average joe" putting a SML together. NO way. Too much to go wrong and end up as "I didn't know that" situation. You need experience in SML and building some rifles. Assembling parts to "build" an AR platform isn't the same. I have no idea what your financial situation is but it's better have a competent and experienced SML smith do your machine work.
From here I'd suggest you do a 45 1st as that is much easier and will give you experience. Especially if doing it yourself. Then move on to a .416 next time. Otherwise just have a .416 gun built to your specifications and learn to shoot it.
As for doing things economically... well you can get a custom done and not have the $ in it that it takes to get a swinglock or badbull or whatever is available retail.
I'm sure more posts will chime in but JMHO. 10 ga
|
|
|
|
Post by markb317 on Jul 3, 2016 20:54:31 GMT -5
If you are wanting a left hand action in Stainless you can go with a Savage PTA . The guns built on Savage actions shoot very well also.
|
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Jul 3, 2016 22:46:48 GMT -5
Whats a Savage target action run?....$600 or less?
I would not worry too much about BH209 and a chromoly receiver IF you get the primer head space setup well. Jeffs module system for example looks like it stays super clean in the breach. I get next to none in my Knights and ive shot quite a bit in a converted MLII 45cal. Get a stainless barrel and have the whole thing coated the same color. You could even melonite (black nitride)or BlackIce the receiver. It becomes very corrosion resistant.
Cant comment on a 416 but i really like my 45s even with Blackhorn209 sabotless. IIRC on Swinglocks sight he shot a 458 350gr Northfolk bullet with 120gr by volume. He got right at 2000fps and about 27kpsi pressures.
|
|
