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Post by farmerfred on Jul 25, 2015 7:31:29 GMT -5
With hunting season fast approaching I want to quit smoking. I have an Encore frame and an Apex frame. Just rifle barrels now. I was originally told months ago to do a Slufoot 209 conversion on either with a factory 45-70 barrel. Doing some research I found Hankins does these with his cases. Nice youtube videos. I'm torn between the two. I know the price for a Slufoot but not sure of Hankins price for the conversion. I have not seen many reports of Hankins guns groups. Let me rephrase that, none of his break open conversion groups. Does anybody have one of each that can say one is better then tbe other? I will be wanting to shoot with no sabot. Probably the Parker 250 or 275 to start. Might need a swinglock sizing die though. Can anybody lead me in rhe right direction? Thanks in advance.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 8:19:09 GMT -5
First off let me be the first to congratulate you for quitting smoking lol
Secondly both guys do top notch work, don't have any of their guns personally but read too much good about both not to be true.
Good luck and be safe.
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Post by bestill458 on Jul 25, 2015 8:31:04 GMT -5
In my opinion the apex would be my choice great frame and great trigger and barrel. Negative is no stock options. The tc are good but you will need a custom barrel to get barrel length seems tc 45/70 barrels are very hard to find .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 8:37:10 GMT -5
I'd go with the Apex and its a toss up for who to do the conversion. Here's something to think about, with Jeff's product you could shoot straight powder and never worry. He also sends a sizing die with his product which you will want in the end. His price will be now than Slufoot but remember your getting a sizing die that runs over $150 can't remember exact price.
Slufoot does great work and is a great guy to work with, Jeff is also. You'll be shooting 209 primers which you won't need a module to put in your gun which is nice. If you shoot sabotless you'll need to shoot duplex loads which can be a pain for some.
Even though you are working with a modules I'd lean towards Jeff just because I haven't tried his system yet along with it would be nice to shoot single powders. Along with you'll get a sizing die with your purchase. I did good with the sabot loads just hated waiting between shots for barrel to cool down.
I like Apex better because I feel it fits better and possibly lighter.
Maybe Jeff will post a price quote for the conversion.
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Post by farmerfred on Jul 25, 2015 14:32:41 GMT -5
I don't want to use the sabots. I want to load a bullet down to shoot. If I understand this if I go a 209 primer Slufoot I have to duplex in either break action but if I use the primer cases with rifle primers I don't? I don't want to be mixing powders around. I saw a standard load of 70 H4198 being used in the Remington muzzleloader conversions. Does that not work in the break guns? Why don't they have to mix powder? I just want a gun that won't be to expensive to make but will shoot across some corn fields on my property and couple leasese.
I got a message to use a small diamer plug. Is this standard? I would want some strenght in the plug I guess.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 14:40:35 GMT -5
You won't have to use any duplex loads in a break open. It's easy but not a requirement.
Unless you live in the tundra you'll be fine with a straight load of 4198. I don't recommend much over 60 grains tho. There are some that have installed this fear of the scope mounting holes in the barrel's of break opens being a potential weak area.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 16:16:57 GMT -5
I love my H&R's. They are super handy and accurate too. Beware that you should ALWAYS try the bullet you intend to shoot, be Saboted or sabotless, BEFORE converting the barrel. A saboted bullet could be too tight or too loose. The latter also goes for sabotless. It is very important for sabotless because I know people that had barrels converted only to find they were tighter at the muzzle than the breech. If that is the case then the gun will be saboted ONLY if not unuseable.
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Post by bestill458 on Jul 25, 2015 16:55:45 GMT -5
Cva apex45/70 and install lukes 9/16 plug for 209 will be very resonably priced build or Hankins lrp system.
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Post by Hank on Jul 25, 2015 17:01:03 GMT -5
I'm going to try and answer all the questions I read in this thread, if I forget one just ask it again..
Rambler is correct. You shouldn't need to duplex weather you use a 209 primer or a LRMP. I prefer the LRMP but that's just me.. I've seen plenty of 209 guns shoot well but I've never seen one that didn't leak at the primer..
The small diameter plug is a good idea.. I am currently working on a smaller plug than the ones currently available and I designed them for the Apex, Encore and H&R conversions.. This smaller plug is still just as strong as a bigger plug.. So as the saying goes,, bigger ain't always better..
The plugs will be available for use with either a 209 primer or my LRMP modules.. The 209 system will be much cheaper that the LRMP system because you don't need to buy the modules.. The 209 plug would be ideal for those guys that only shoot it a few times a year and want a smokeless hunting gun..
I also don't recommend over 60 grains of 4198 in these brake open guns because of the smaller diameter barrels. So caution is warned if you were to shoot more that that..
I'm not going to discuss prices on the open form.. If you want pricing you can PM me or call me and I can let you know what that is with your options.. Each project can have a different total price, depending on the work performed.
These plugs should be done hopefully by the August shoot where I will show them to the guys there, then I'll be able to start selling/installing them.
Either way you go,, you can't go wrong...
Jeff..
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 17:08:53 GMT -5
I'm going to try and answer all the questions I read in this thread, if I forget one just ask it again.. Rambler is correct. You shouldn't need to duplex weather you use a 209 primer or a LRMP. I prefer the LRMP but that's just me.. I've seen plenty of 209 guns shoot well but I've never seen one that didn't leak at the primer.. The small diameter plug is a good idea.. I am currently working on a smaller plug than the ones currently available and I designed them for the Apex, Encore and H&R conversions.. This smaller plug is still just as strong as a bigger plug.. So as the saying goes,, bigger ain't always better.. The plugs will be available for use with either a 209 primer or my LRMP modules.. The 209 system will be much cheaper that the LRMP system because you don't need to buy the modules.. The 209 plug would be ideal for those guys that only shoot it a few times a year and want a smokeless hunting gun.. I also don't recommend over 60 grains of 4198 in these brake open guns because of the smaller diameter barrels. So caution is warned if you were to shoot more that that.. I'm not going to discuss prices on the open form.. If you want pricing you can PM me or call me and I can let you know what that is with your options.. Each project can have a different total price, depending on the work performed. These plugs should be done hopefully by the August shoot where I will show them to the guys there, then I'll be able to start selling/installing them. Either way you go,, you can't go wrong... Jeff.. Jeff, will your new 209 plugs have a front sealing shoulder and come with a tungsten bushing??
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Post by Hank on Jul 25, 2015 17:21:08 GMT -5
Rambler... It has a rear sealing shoulder just like my other plug and is set up for a bushing.
Jeff
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 17:48:51 GMT -5
Rambler... It has a rear sealing shoulder just like my other plug and is set up for a bushing. Jeff awesome.
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Post by hillbill on Jul 25, 2015 18:11:44 GMT -5
the Apex would be my choice simply because It has a slightly larger dia barrel and a better trigger from the factory, I think its just a better gun all around but that's just my opinion
as Jeff and others said either system will work great just don't shoot too heavy bullets and powder charges...
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