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Post by hillbill on May 4, 2016 5:04:40 GMT -5
It appears that the leadership on the other board seems to think that we here at Hank's are trying to sabotage their forum? This is not the first time we have been accused of that.
that's almost laughable! why would we want or need to do that? Just to let the members here know that however flawed we might be we do not and will not operate that way.
I know lots of guys from there read everything here including the leadership so just to be clear, WE DO NOT OPERATE THAT WAY.
To be clear
ANYONE can post what they like and ask any question they want about any system they want and get honest answers from guys that are pretty knowledgeable without reprisal from the mods. as long as it's kept civil why would we care? this is a SML board and any system or build is welcome here.
We are not looking to drum up business or take members away from anyone, men can join and participate in any forum they want and if they want to belong to both boards we have no problem with that..
Enough Said....
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Post by Squeeze on May 4, 2016 5:46:00 GMT -5
I lurk everywhere, But I have to say, for a forum that started out based on sharing information and innovative ideas, Priding themselves on being the open minded trailblazer. Things sure have evolved into something completely different.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 7:59:08 GMT -5
My name is Steve and I'm a fence jumper.....  |
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Post by GMB54-120 on May 4, 2016 8:52:42 GMT -5
Its sad you get labeled just for posting on another forum with a similar topic focus. Its especially sad when a moderator is doing the labeling.
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Post by 12ptdroptine on May 4, 2016 10:58:26 GMT -5
I see no way anybody from anywhere can sabotage another board...my simple minded self doesn comprehend such antics....let alone know how to facilitate such an action. It all boils down to finding the root cause and dealing with it from that point forward. There is a cause and an effect.I believe This board is a result of those two actions.
As Bill said we dont operate that way nor condone those who would. I can say that I have NEVER heard any part of a conversation that contained any instructions....information...of any kind as to influence anyone to participate in anything detrimental to any other board or forum...nope nada never
Drop
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Post by tnhunter54 on May 4, 2016 17:26:52 GMT -5
The other board is infected from within its own core and can do nothing but self destruct at this point as I see it. Sad very sad but because of a few they brought this upon themselves. I wont be visiting there any longer.
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Post by Hank on May 4, 2016 18:35:49 GMT -5
I know some of those guys want to blame their down fall on me. Big E keeps saying its because of one guy, and he is referring to me. But I can honestly say I never did anything wrong on that board. Never called anyone names or made threats towards anyone. Never called them used car salesmen or nothing like that. All I did was post my stuff and it got a lot of attention and the high and mighty over there couldn't stand it any longer so they banned me.
I played their game, followed their rules and performed every test they ask of me and still they want to say my system is faulty..... Well I know better and I don't really care what those over there think.
What it all boils down to is they are sore losers. If they can't beat you they will ban you..................
Now we have this board for those of us that don't want to deal with the drama over there and know that over here you can talk and ask questions with out being scolded and ridiculed.....
So if you have a question feel free to ask it.....
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beans
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Post by beans on May 4, 2016 19:00:50 GMT -5
If you stay away from the smokeless threads, Doug's has a great membership. Even within the smokeless members there are great folks there. But they are corralled into the issues that the "govt" wants them to participate in.
I stay there because none of the trash ever spills over to reloading, hunting, success stories, fishing, photo's. I lurk on the SML forum to see if ANYBODY ever shoots a stock Savage anymore. Cause I do and am pretty good at it if I don't say so myself. A guy made a post about the exact same power load I used for a few years that really settled the men from the boys. I was happy to hear this guy was on to something in the "simple" world of SML. And the King of Admin throws a dart into a TOTALLY inert post. Nothing to do with any of the things you can get banned or warned for. WHY? WTF? What was the reason?
Well I know the reason. He was upset with things I said about him ON ANOTHER BOARD and the the mods that always stick up for him no matter how crazy he gets. He let his emotion DICTATE his reaction to that. A very bad move for the so-called leader of a good board. What could he have done differently:
1) PM me and voice his displeasure
2) Just ban me. But that would alienate many who know me and know I was railroaded over there
3) Not do anything. Shut up and let the good post run its course. Nothing was being done to infringe on any "rules"
4) Consult with mods on if my posting on DOUG'S was appropriate
5) Resigned and let a more cool head become a ADMIN/Leader
Funny what power does to people. Funny what power does to OTHER people who don't want to lose any power they think they may have. Fog. See thru it.
I love that all the mods read these posts here and gather info and waste their time on analyzing the people here. Why? I say copy the comments here and post them over there. See what you get with responses from members who aren't afraid to voice opinions. Many are and just fly under the radar. You are reading the post of someone who doesn't give one rats arse. You must ban a crap load of your members and brainwash the rest to survive. If that happens, you will have your utopia of mind numbed members and readers of good old posts. Hilloredge!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 19:08:20 GMT -5
I guess I look at it from a slightly different perspective. The board was founded on the Savage 10ML II. For years, everyone shared innovations, loads, etc. Now, the LRMP has become increasingly convenient and proven to be superior in many ways. IMO, the 209 systems are being utilized well beyond their design parameters by some.
As with anything, change is hard to accept by some. IE, I grew up with carbureted hot rods. Fuel injection became better and better in the 90's and is in the forefront of competition today. I am just as happy with my 850 double pumper as I am with a 209 primer but I know the limitations of both.
The next issue is that we have members on both boards who are not of the engineering or machinist types and do not truly grasp concepts such as material thickness, material hardness, destructive testing, threads, sealing, etc. Then, someone comes along with something much better in many ways. He handles himself with integrity and promotes his product. He answers any and all questions, makes videos to help people further understand these concepts. He is accepted my many but brutally opposed by some because of their lack of knowledge and lack of willingness to see the other side. I hate to see the other board go down or rather become stagnant over such childish differences but so be it. This site will live on.
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Post by wtwthunter on May 4, 2016 20:16:35 GMT -5
I want to thank everyone on this board for being very helpful and willing to help anyone that asks. People on this board don't have to worry about what ignition system or what rifle builder they mention. I am just getting started in this SML thing and don't know what is going on with this hole thing. I really just started reading about SML in Jan. of this year. I started reading on the other board and this board I think there are some very intelligent people on both boards. But I am done with the other board .A person should not have to worry about what rifle they ask about I am just learning and had no idea I couldn't ask about certain rifles. Again THANKS to everyone for being so helpful.
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Post by hillbill on May 4, 2016 21:19:23 GMT -5
I really enjoyed the old board, learned a lot and hopefully contributed? maybe I didn't? or maybe less so than I think. I never ever called anyone names or talked down to anyone and tried to be a calming voice when things got a little heated. hopefully I can do the same here, If not the other mods can vote me out or Jeff can ask me to step down.
When Jeff and I talked before he joined the board he didn't sound very interested but I think with some coaxing from Kyle he did join after a while.
I have to admit, when Jeff came to Dougs I was skeptical myself and yes he came across very strong and many didn't like it but I had already decided I was going to give him a chance to prove himself and his system. It was different from what we were using and it rubbed many people the wrong way.
bottom line, he did prove his system and it works darn well, after the first shoot I had him barrel up an action for me and a few since, so yes I do shoot his system.
I do however still shoot 209 systems as well and I will always shoot both, both have their merits.
Jeff has a strong personality and if he believes he is right he will fight tooth and nail to prove it, again many didn't like it but as he said, he didn't get nasty or make any threats. He just did what he felt he needed to to prove his points.
Did he ever do anything to get banned for? what about SML? and others be it temporary or permanent then or since then?
This is why I left the board, guys were being singled out because of perceived affiliation or defending the unjust way things were being handled, unless it has changed in the last few weeks it's still ongoing.
Many blame me for splitting the board, I coaxed members to participate in the first Challenge because I believed he had a good system and did good work. I also believed we could learn a lot from each other and we have done exactly that. Anyone that spends any time around Jeff will tell you he is easy to like and we all have a great time when we get together. "Deliverance Challenge"?, far from it, good ole boys having a lot of fun? absolutely!
Anyone that thinks otherwise just needs to come and see.
when I left I was fed up and mad as a mashed cat, did I try to split the membership? absolutely not! we are all grown men and make our own choices, those that left did so without any coaxing from me.
we have some good guys here that know a lot about SML stuff, do we know it all? NO but neither does anyone else, but I can assure you that we are always thinking and tweaking and new things will be here to learn for many years to come.
As for trying to undermine the other board? Absolute hogwash! honestly as long as my name is left out of the bickering why should I care?
what would it benefit us? those of you that want to participate in both already do anyway so that line of thinking just don"t hold water.
I didn't start this thread to try to stir the pot, just to let some guys know what the real deal is, take it for what it is, believe what you want, CIVILITY RULES HERE..............
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Post by linebaugh on May 5, 2016 10:00:54 GMT -5
I can tell you that I personally did not like Jeff one bit when he first came on Dougs. Didn't like his attitude or his self richousness about his guns/system/self. Then I started too see him in a different light so to speak and noticed that he was just passionate about his products and type A in that regard. I can respect that since I am the same way as I suspect many here are, it's a man thing.
Anyway I also watched on Dougs as Jeff became the sole source of entertainment for an all out witch hunt by the same group of guys that are still hunting witches. Saw a guy who single handedly fought off an entire group of guys who were dead set on proving him wrong. When that didn't work they did the next best thing and banned him. After banning said witch opened his own board and the butt hurt on the other side of the fence has never healed. Absolutely childish and chicken shit IMO and it resulted in one of the best boards on the net being burned to the ground all because a half dozen guys can't put their ego's below the betterment of the community in general. What ever happened to respectfully disagreeing anyway?
Even with all of this I personally would still like to see the fence taken down, axes burried, sticks and stones pushed aside and for both boards to live happily ever after. Heck I would like to see one board again the way it used to be back when we all just wanted to shoot and learn about SML's. I know all parties are toggling back and forth on boards and as such I would like to ask both sides to please burry the hatchet, be men and extend the olive branch over the fence. We don't have to agree with each other but we don't have to act un-civilized toward each other either. Try it, it won't be that hard I'm sure of it.
P.S.
I don't still dislike you Jeff. Lol. Hope to meet all you fellas at the shoot some time. Perhaps next year.
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Post by hillbill on May 5, 2016 12:10:42 GMT -5
linebaugh
I agree with you on some points and disagree on others but we can meet in the middle and call it good. as far as there ever being one board again? only if one or the other goes belly up,and I don't see that happening anytime soon, too many differences and debris in the rear view mirror. In a perfect world that would be great but we have to look at reality.
we can be civil and should be, we welcome the other boards members with open arms here and it will remain that way. Only one guy as been banned here and most know who that is.
I would like to see open dialogue on both boards about whatever gun/system etc that anyone wants to talk about without fear of censorship or off color remarks, time will tell if that will happen. In the meantime we will act like men and move forward.
Maybe I should keep my thoughts to myself from now on and not make threads like this but I felt that a response was needed to clear the fog and so the other side knows where we stand here. I did and now they know.
PS:
you are more than welcome at the shoot linebaugh and hopefully we will see you there in the fall, come with an open mind and be ready to have some fun, same goes for all the others out there..
Have a good week and weekend..
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WGK
Full Member
Posts: 154
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Post by WGK on May 5, 2016 14:35:34 GMT -5
Several have already stated the root cause of the problem and that is that men need to act like men not children. But for a hand full over on the other site that just doesn't seem possible.
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Post by doug136 on May 6, 2016 8:15:28 GMT -5
When i first started into smokless muzzleloading everything happened by accident . I started researching the pressues smokless loads compared to triple 7 , any way the research lead me to Dougs board and then to Jeff Hankins videos . I was so impressed with his videos that i convinced a friend to order a gun at the same time i ordered mine . Mind you guys i knew nothing about smokless muzzleloaders or all the gun builders that build different designs . Right after i ordered the gun i happen to run across SwingLock guns . I posted a question about Swinglock guns , asked if they were any good . Everyone said how well they are built and that they are truley a custom gun . I then happened to mention that i ordered a Hankins muzzleloader and hoped i didnt make a mistake . At that time it was ok to mention Jeff Hankins when they thought i might back out of my order with Jeff . You wouldnt believe all the replies i recieved on site and how i should ask for my money back and order a Swinglock instead . The second i posted that i drove 5 hours to meet Jeff Hankins and i had nothing but respect for the man and that i thought he built a great gun sh*t hit the fan ! I then recievied PMs that Jeff Hankins or his products are not allowed to be mentioned and if i kept it up i would be banned . I didnt even realize what i was doing was wrong because im so computer ignorant i didnt even see the PMs sent by Ed .Ed said Jeff was stealing from the board . Still being ignorant towards everything i somewhat took his word but couldnt understand why others on that board are posting pictures of thier guns and patting each other on thier backs and that seems to be perfectly fine . Finally i just asked Jeff why he didnt just post a add on Dougs site like SMI and Arrowhead have done . Jeff told me he tried . I was instantly pissed and went back through old threads on Dougs message boards . It didnt take long to figure out what REALLY happened ! The moral of this long post is that it is nice to be able to post any builder and any ignition system without the worry of getting reprimanded ! Also even tho Swinglock builds a great custom gun im sooo glad i didnt cancel my Hankins order ! Even though
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Post by doug136 on May 6, 2016 8:24:11 GMT -5
Even though others call it just another Remington 700 . Ill take my Hankins custom gun over anything else ! Just wish Jeff would hurry his butt up !lol There is a reason why he is so far behind !
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