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Post by dannoboone on Feb 5, 2016 16:29:55 GMT -5
Virgin PRVI .243 brass, 40.8gr RL17, 105gr A-max .010 to lands. 5-shot group @ 100yds, approx. 5/8".
Trim necks, debur blash holes, and resize. Load as above and have gotten multiple +- 1/4" 5-shot groups.
Virgin Lapua brass loaded same as above, again 5/8" groups...no surprise.
This "better" brass should do better or at lease as well with 2d loading after identical brass prep, right? Nope!
One 2 inch horizontal group and a 2+" group all around POA.
The only difference noted during loading was that the PRVI brass sized easier than the Lapua brass. Is it this or something else which would make so much of a difference??
I can understand a difference in POI from tighter neck tension, but for the groups to go crazy like that?? Especially when first groups from virgin brass were practically identical??
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Post by keith on Feb 7, 2016 14:05:01 GMT -5
Is there a significant difference in internal capacity? RL17 gets funny when compressed.
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beans
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Post by beans on Feb 9, 2016 23:01:08 GMT -5
Did you go back to some of the benchmark loads that shot well in the PRIV brass...and repeat the greatness? If not, you should. Make sure nothing else has happened to the scope, rings, mounts or other variables in the rifle set up. Just a thought....as a layman, that's what I would do.
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beans
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Post by beans on Feb 9, 2016 23:05:23 GMT -5
I wanted to also add that I just re-sized a ton of mixed .243 brass last week. ALL the PRIV brass re-sized harder that anything I've ever re-sized in any caliber. Granted, I was full-length re-sizing...not neck sizing only. All the hornady, Win, Rem and Federal brass was "normal" in ease of sizing but the PRIV was like 5 times harder.
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Post by keith on Feb 12, 2016 7:22:10 GMT -5
That being the case it could be that your cases need to be annealed if you stick with PRVI brass. As it work hardens you are going to have issues with fliers. I've seen it with brass I've tried to use too long.
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Post by dannoboone on Feb 12, 2016 17:28:17 GMT -5
That missile of a bullet does project down into the case, but doesn't compress the 40.8gr of RL17. No, haven't gone back. That was my last time out before Iowa winter set in......don't shoot worth a hoot while shivvering. Suffering from cabin fever and decided to bring up the subject. Yes, I plan a shoot with the reloaded PRVI. (I'm thinking you're not so much of just a "layman" ) Scope issues have been known to crop up from one shot to the next. Although I like it, the scope is just an Osprey Int'nl. How many times has your PRVI brass been reloaded? My Lapua brass took a little more pressure on the handle than the PRVI, both first and second loadings. Which causes me to scratch my head just a bit more, since both grouped practically identically on their first loadings.?.?.? Agree with Keith.....time to break out the ol' propane torch for your PRVI brass.
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beans
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Post by beans on Feb 12, 2016 18:58:22 GMT -5
Danno,
The brass, all of it in many makes, was once fired factory ammo. Got a buddy that's been building up brass bought over the counter. The PRIV stuff is one tough animal and I think my back teeth loosened after finally getting the handle down on the press and then breaking her free on the way up. I ALMOST decided to stop sizing these but half his brass is this stuff.
I just finished a 1,500 rd ..38 spcl project for him. Now it's .243 and .308. We have a barter system. I reload anything he wants...he buys the components...and he gives me cases and cases of canned goods that him and his wife make. Tomato sauce, beans, peas. It's a great deal for me....and for him.
I have not made much rifle ammo for him yet. Have 100's of sized, trimmed and primed cases ready to go for each. I have been loading 5 rd batches using components I have on hand. He will shoot them and we will tweak if needed. He is a short range (<200 yd) hunter so, extreme precision/tuning is not needed. Once we settle on something good for each gun, we'll load everything until there are no more cases. He'll be set for a long time and I will have food in the pantry.
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Post by deadeye on Apr 1, 2016 2:24:49 GMT -5
problem probably lies with the case shoulder bump area- remove firing pin from bolt> fl die bump shoulder till bolt handle goes down without any resistance while chambering a resized case,sometimes have to grind top of shellplate a little letting more brass into die. different brass bumps different,after every brass firing needs to be rechecked & die readjusted.
have a .308 that likes win & lapua brass but hates rem & federal brass for accuracy purposes.
some guns don't mind some bolt tension/others hate bolt tension ime.
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Post by linebaugh on Apr 1, 2016 8:36:10 GMT -5
Not sure what your problem is but a couple comments on the brass you are using.
1) I actually am somewhat fond of Privi brass. I think it's a sleeper brand. It reminds me of PMC brass from years past, I really liked that stuff.
2) Lapua brass prior to firing was tougher than woodpecker lips when I ran the necks through a die and tried to seat bullets. Perhaps it is the lot I have? First time I ever bought Lapua brass was last year for a 22-250AI. Trying to initially neck size and seat bullets was some of the hardest working brass I have used. I was actually ringing the bullets seating them. After firing it seems much, much, much better.
No help in your problem but an observation. May be neck tension changes? I doubt it would cause 2" groups or stringing though. I would think neck tension would just cause the groups to open or close up a wee, not string or blow up to 2"
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Post by Richard on Apr 21, 2016 16:46:53 GMT -5
Good point from Deadeye on the shoulder bump if closing the bolt handle is hard. Might want to invest in a ball micrometer to check the neck wall thickness. Some of this brass can vary .002 to .004" in wall thickness.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 0:17:36 GMT -5
Everyone does things a little different. When I headspace, I set headspace to new brass that I intend on using in that particular gun after checking the brass dimensionally. I set it up tight, with slight bolt resistance when locking into battery. From that point forward, I neck size until a full resize is needed due to a dramatic change in loading resistance. After the load is tuned to my satisfaction, everything stays the same. If brass is changed, the load must be retuned due to possible volumetric differences. Neck tension is a big deal IMO. I devised a method to measure neck tension. I size the case and insert the projectile to normal seating depth, Install an RCBS collet type bullet puller, Attach a digital fish scale to the handle of my press and pull the press handle by pulling on the fish scale. The fish scale can be set to display peak pressure so that it reads the peak force required to pull the bullet. This measures the force needed to extract the projectile from the case, which is the same motion that is performed when the projectile is discharged. This needs to be performed on samples of the brass when new and prepped as well as after sizing. I have found neck sizing dies to produce less neck tension than full form dies.
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Post by 10gaauto on May 17, 2016 20:11:33 GMT -5
This "better" brass should do better or at lease as well with 2d loading after identical brass prep, right? Nope!
Well the only change was brand of brass. That is a pretty insignificant change and really shouldn't have any effect unless case volume were involved.
Originally shot in same gun etc... Perhaps Lapua even makes the PRVI brass. Or uses the same specs on the dies etc...
I'm not really surprised.
Now if it were some of that Russian steel caseings could be very different....
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Post by dannoboone on May 18, 2016 16:33:30 GMT -5
Lapua is made in Finland. PRVI is made in Serbia.
Weather, health issues, and equipment break-downs has gotten me so far behind that I have had no time to go back and check what may be the problem. Did find a loose screw on the horizontal scope adjustment, but doubt if that was the accuracy problem. Loaded up 15 cases of PRVI brass......will see what they do when it's possible to get to it.
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