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Post by thelefthand on Jan 12, 2024 11:08:40 GMT -5
Is there a thread somewhere that us new/potential 45 guys can go to that has information that pertains to the converted CVA Scouts? Specifically, I'd like to know what the max recommended pressure should be, and some loads that approach that limit. Seems like everything I find is for 275-300gr bullets and 4198. I've got a lot of time on a 50 Cal Savage, but the 45 and the scout are both new animals for me. I'm accustomed to allowing the sabot to be my safety check valve. Since the Scout is a weaker system than the Savage ML, and a sabot isn't required for 45cal projectiles, I'm not sure where a person should stop. The load I've been running in my Savage for the past 15 years is 71gr of Reloader 7 under a 300gr SST stuffed into an HPH12 sabot. I'm guessing that 71gr of R7 is going to be too much with a 300gr SST in a CVA Scout, but I'm not sure what my max should be.
I'm actually planning on shooting either 250gr 45cal Barnes TMZs, or 195gr 40cal Barnes Expanders, and prefer to stick with Reloader 7 if it will give me the accuracy and trajectory that I want. I've seen threads where people are shooting 71gr of R7 with both of these bullets, but I have no idea whether or not that's safe in a converted Scout. Since the scout is weeker than a Savage, I'm also not sure if its safe to trust the BCR sabots to tell me when I'm too hot if I'm shooting 40cal bullets.
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Post by Richard on Jan 12, 2024 23:07:01 GMT -5
A short time ago, Buckeye68 sacrificed a barrel by cutting one inch at a time and chronographing the velocity so we know the velocity loss. Now we need someone to sacrifice a CVA by loading progressively higher charges until it blows up ( remotely of course). At one time, Jeff was going to blow up a barrel ( I sent him one) but it never happened, for one reason or another. The fact is, no one actually knows what it takes to blow up a barrel.
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Post by afisher on Jan 13, 2024 9:23:11 GMT -5
Isn’t the TMZ a boat tail projectile? Which isn’t the best for a sabotless application to start with. And if it does require sizing where it’s a mono bullet it would have to be annealed to get it soft enough and it’s a plastic tipped bullet so the tip would have to be removed to even do so. As for the saboted bullet I’d imagine the sabot would tell the tell. And you may find yourself cleaning plastic fouling to keep accuracy. A local guy here had got a smith to put on a Preferred barrel back on his ML2 savage and he was shooting the harvester blues in it with 4198 and it was fouling like horrible is why I mention this. So it may have been just the barrel in general or how hard he was pushing them.
Not saying one can’t be different, because that’s what makes this world go around. But with some searching on these threads one can find a lot of basic ground rules on these scout rifles to really get them to shoot. And when it comes to playing with “pipe bombs” I’d rather follow the path that some has already blazed in front of us. Safety is the best policy.
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Post by james72 on Jan 13, 2024 14:23:17 GMT -5
If you do a search for 'CVA Scout max pressure' or 'pressure curve' you will find a lot of information. There are several experienced shooters on this site who have calculated pressure curves with various powders and bullet weights and then tested those in their own rifles. I'm not sure you will find a lot of info on R7 and Barnes bullets. You will find quite a bit of info on 4198 or 4227 and Pittman bullets. Like another said it's best to follow the path that someone else has already proven to be safe. Most experienced members on here will say the max pressure for a CVA Scout is around 45,000 psi (some will say 40,000 psi). The load I shoot out of my Scout has a calculated pressure that is around 48,000 psi. I feel comfortable with this load, but I would not go any higher.
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Post by thelefthand on Jan 16, 2024 10:40:59 GMT -5
If you do a search for 'CVA Scout max pressure' or 'pressure curve' you will find a lot of information. There are several experienced shooters on this site who have calculated pressure curves with various powders and bullet weights and then tested those in their own rifles. I'm not sure you will find a lot of info on R7 and Barnes bullets. You will find quite a bit of info on 4198 or 4227 and Pittman bullets. Like another said it's best to follow the path that someone else has already proven to be safe. Most experienced members on here will say the max pressure for a CVA Scout is around 45,000 psi (some will say 40,000 psi). The load I shoot out of my Scout has a calculated pressure that is around 48,000 psi. I feel comfortable with this load, but I would not go any higher. Yeah, I've noticed that. My problem is that I'm already shooting a 300gr SST at 2450 fps out of my savage. I'm wanting to go to something that's a little easier on my shoulder, and doesn't always destroy the entire off shoulder. Dropping to a 275gr bullet doesn't really get me very far towards either of those goals IMHO. I've run 250gr cup and core bullets in the past and I don't care for them at high speeds. They are prone to plain off course after impact where as the 300gr stuff maintains a straight wound channel, as does the 250gr monolithic stuff. I'm not set on the TMZ, but I am set on either a 45 cal 250gr expanding monolithic projectile or (preferably) a 40cal 200gr expanding monolithic projectile. I'm wanting to go with the 40 only because of the reduced KE. The 40 cal would still be capable of taking a big whitetail well past 250 yds, which is about the farthest shot I have on the properties that I hunt. If I can't get a 40 to shoot with a sabot, a 250gr 45cal monolithic is plan B. If I can't get either to shoot, than the rifle gets sold and I write the entire notion off as a waste of time. I'm not terribly concerned about fowling either. I don't shoot my Savage nearly as much as I used to, but I can't recall the last time I cleaned the barrel. I clean the breach plug every few years, but I'm not seeing any issues with the accuracy so I haven't bothered cleaning the barrel for a long time. It's never been a tack driver, but it has always shot around 1.5 MOA which is minute of deer out to 200 yds for me. I have heard that the 45s are more accurate and I can certainly understand why somone would be concerned if their 0.5 moa rifle started shooting 1.5 moa all of the sudden. That said, if I find a load that I like, and it shoots near 0.5 moa, I'd be happy to clean it to keep it that way. Once the load development is done, it will probably only see 5 shots/year on a busy year. It will be a hunting tool, not a range toy (no offence intended to anyone as I own and shoot rifles that fit both of these descriptions). As pointed out, I see very little info out there on Re7, but it is commonly accepted as the most forgiving powered for sabots, and one of the easiest to ignite if you're not using a duplex load. That's why I'd like to use it. I used to duplex with 250gr bullets and 4198. I'm not opposed to 4198 (still have some), but I don't want to mess with duplexing again. I currently shoot 72gr of Re7 with an HPH12 sabot and the 300gr SST, so suspect that the sabot can withstand that powder charge using a 200gr 40cal bullet. I just don't know if the barrel will take it or not. Seems like the information I see has people stopping under 65 gr of Re7, which seems a little anemic to me. Then again, I don't want to blow the gun up either, and if the accuracy is good and I can get the trajectory I'm after, I'd be fine with 65gr. At the end of the day, I don't want to damage a new rifle. If it won't shoot the way I want it to with projectiles that I'm willing to hunt with, at least it can be sold and most, if not all f the funds can be recovered. If the barrel resembles a flower in bloom, its going to be more difficult to recover, in more ways than one.... I think the issue with "blowing up a barrel" to find your max charge is that you really only get to do it once for every data point.
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Post by deadeer on Jan 16, 2024 13:46:38 GMT -5
If you do a search for 'CVA Scout max pressure' or 'pressure curve' you will find a lot of information. There are several experienced shooters on this site who have calculated pressure curves with various powders and bullet weights and then tested those in their own rifles. I'm not sure you will find a lot of info on R7 and Barnes bullets. You will find quite a bit of info on 4198 or 4227 and Pittman bullets. Like another said it's best to follow the path that someone else has already proven to be safe. Most experienced members on here will say the max pressure for a CVA Scout is around 45,000 psi (some will say 40,000 psi). The load I shoot out of my Scout has a calculated pressure that is around 48,000 psi. I feel comfortable with this load, but I would not go any higher. Yeah, I've noticed that. My problem is that I'm already shooting a 300gr SST at 2450 fps out of my savage. I'm wanting to go to something that's a little easier on my shoulder, and doesn't always destroy the entire off shoulder. Dropping to a 275gr bullet doesn't really get me very far towards either of those goals IMHO. I've run 250gr cup and core bullets in the past and I don't care for them at high speeds. They are prone to plain off course after impact where as the 300gr stuff maintains a straight wound channel, as does the 250gr monolithic stuff. I'm not set on the TMZ, but I am set on either a 45 cal 250gr expanding monolithic projectile or (preferably) a 40cal 200gr expanding monolithic projectile. I'm wanting to go with the 40 only because of the reduced KE. The 40 cal would still be capable of taking a big whitetail well past 250 yds, which is about the farthest shot I have on the properties that I hunt. If I can't get a 40 to shoot with a sabot, a 250gr 45cal monolithic is plan B. If I can't get either to shoot, than the rifle gets sold and I write the entire notion off as a waste of time. I'm not terribly concerned about fowling either. I don't shoot my Savage nearly as much as I used to, but I can't recall the last time I cleaned the barrel. I clean the breach plug every few years, but I'm not seeing any issues with the accuracy so I haven't bothered cleaning the barrel for a long time. It's never been a tack driver, but it has always shot around 1.5 MOA which is minute of deer out to 200 yds for me. I have heard that the 45s are more accurate and I can certainly understand why somone would be concerned if their 0.5 moa rifle started shooting 1.5 moa all of the sudden. That said, if I find a load that I like, and it shoots near 0.5 moa, I'd be happy to clean it to keep it that way. Once the load development is done, it will probably only see 5 shots/year on a busy year. It will be a hunting tool, not a range toy (no offence intended to anyone as I own and shoot rifles that fit both of these descriptions). As pointed out, I see very little info out there on Re7, but it is commonly accepted as the most forgiving powered for sabots, and one of the easiest to ignite if you're not using a duplex load. That's why I'd like to use it. I used to duplex with 250gr bullets and 4198. I'm not opposed to 4198 (still have some), but I don't want to mess with duplexing again. I currently shoot 72gr of Re7 with an HPH12 sabot and the 300gr SST, so suspect that the sabot can withstand that powder charge using a 200gr 40cal bullet. I just don't know if the barrel will take it or not. Seems like the information I see has people stopping under 65 gr of Re7, which seems a little anemic to me. Then again, I don't want to blow the gun up either, and if the accuracy is good and I can get the trajectory I'm after, I'd be fine with 65gr. At the end of the day, I don't want to damage a new rifle. If it won't shoot the way I want it to with projectiles that I'm willing to hunt with, at least it can be sold and most, if not all f the funds can be recovered. If the barrel resembles a flower in bloom, its going to be more difficult to recover, in more ways than one.... I think the issue with "blowing up a barrel" to find your max charge is that you really only get to do it once for every data point. The 45 makes more pressure and faster than the 50 cal, so less powder is needed. The old staple of 55-62gr H4198 with 200gr sst or 195bx is gold. For years now, I started shooting 60gr VV N120 with said bullets, and getting 2800fps. If shooting a sabotless landrider, look at 4227 as well. Several guys shooting that with good luck and monos. For a cheap alternative, I bought .452 Hdy monoflex from Midway USA. They were blems and dirt cheap, same with the .452 245gr Hdy spirepoint.
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Post by dennis on Jan 16, 2024 15:44:34 GMT -5
To the op, now bare with me. The scout was made in different caliber offerings, all of which has a case chamber. Measure for instance the diameter of of a 243 or 7mm08 and a 45-70 cases in comparison. Now look at max pressure for the smaller caliber. The scout barrels (should) be able to handle these pressures, but I would not push the extreme nor would I want to enjoy the recoil of such a load. Also there is yield strength and tensile strength to consider. I would not push the extreme on the scout platform as it is easily capable at 300yds with a 24-2500fps load with 275-300gr bullets.
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Post by thelefthand on Jan 17, 2024 11:17:27 GMT -5
To the op, now bare with me. The scout was made in different caliber offerings, all of which has a case chamber. Measure for instance the diameter of of a 243 or 7mm08 and a 45-70 cases in comparison. Now look at max pressure for the smaller caliber. The scout barrels (should) be able to handle these pressures, but I would not push the extreme nor would I want to enjoy the recoil of such a load. Also there is yield strength and tensile strength to consider. I would not push the extreme on the scout platform as it is easily capable at 300yds with a 24-2500fps load with 275-300gr bullets. I don't disagree, but if I wanted a muzzleloader that pushed a 275gr - 300gr bullet at 2400 - 2500 fps, I'd just save my money and continue to use my 50cal Savage because it's been doing exactly that for me since I switched to the 300gr SST in 2008. The load you're talking about would be good for elk, and probably buffalo out to 300 yds. Does this load kill deer? Absolutely! It does more damage to a deer than ANYTHING I've seen. Admittedly, I haven't shot a deer with a 50BMG, 500 S&W carbine, 460 S&W carbine, or a 45 Raptor, but I can't imagine that any of those would be able to do noticeably more damage than what I'm doing with my Savage. It's rare that I shoot a deer with this load and don't end up throwing away most of one front shoulder. I'm sick and tired of throwing all that meat away. I can almost always drop a golf ball through the entrance wound on the rib cage, and a softball through the exit wound. As a young(er) man, I found the the carnage to be impressive. After 20 years of it, I'm sick and tired of the doing all the work just to have to turn around and throw away a noticeable amount of the reward. One cause for the excessive damage is the bullets design. SST projectiles have always been known to expand quickly. Another cause is the bullets momentum. The 300gr bullets retain their momentum WAY better than the 250gr cup and core bullets do which causes a lot more damage at the exit wound. I may be able to switch to a 250gr Barnes in my Savage and address both of these. Another cause is the velocity. This is a trade off. The higher the impact velocity, the more momentum the bullet has, and the more quickly it expands. The slower the muzzle velocity is, the more drop you have as the distance increases. I shoot a reasonable number of deer at 150 to 200 yds, and I am accustomed to placing my shots exactly where I want them (not within 3" of where I want them). For me, 2400 fps is already slower than I care for and its a compromise on my part. Another cause is simply the bullets diameter. Even on a big, mature buck, it's not possible to fit a .452 projectile between 2 ribs. These big projectiles are always going to turn bones into high speed frags on the entry wound. Nothing I can really change about that since a 40 cal is going to have the same effect. My primary goal in this adventure is to end up with a muzzle loading rifle that's capable of taking large whitetail deer with a maximum range of 300 yds, a practical range of 200 yds (no more than 1.5" high or 2" low) without consistently having to throw away an entire front shoulder due to meat damage, and I'd like to have MOA accuracy or better, but I'll take 1.5 MOA as a compromise. Of these goals, minimizing meat damage is the primary objective, flatter trajectory is secondary, and better accuracy is tertiary. It's possible that going to a 250gr Barnes at 2600 fps would be enough to reduce meet loss because the 250gr projectile will loose its momentum more quickly than a 300gr. The tougher construction of the Barnes will work against that objective so its a toss up as to whether I'd notice a difference or not. Going down to a 200gr 40 cal projectile further reduces the bullet's momentum even though the MV is noticeably higher. The higher MV also gives me a flatter trajectory. The question is how fast can the CVA Scout safely, and accurately push a 195gr Barnes projectile? I've found information posted stating that Reloader 7 can push that bullet 3000 fps with sub moa accuracy, but that person was not using a CVA Scout conversion. Reloader 7 is known to be much easier on sabots than 4198. Historically, it has been able to push saboted projectiles faster than any of the other powders, regardless of bullet weight. I'm not opposed to using 4198, N120, 4227, or any other powder for that matter, so long as I know that the Scout's barrel will be stronger than the sabot....
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Post by Hank on Jan 17, 2024 12:11:13 GMT -5
When shooting a whitetail deer with a 40 or 45 caliber rifle you are going to through away quite a bit of meat. Only way around it, in my opinion, is to shoot them in the head.
In order to have enough velocity to cleanly kill at 300 yards, you will have to much velocity to kill at 50 yards without blowing the deer all to hell and back, to slow it down enough to minimize damage at 50 yards you won't have enough velocity to get to that 300 yard deer. So you have to take the good with the bad.
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Post by dennis on Jan 17, 2024 12:17:07 GMT -5
The scout is a youngin' a bigger/1.25 barrel is an adult so I don't expect mine to do the same work .
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Post by buckeye68 on Jan 17, 2024 13:22:58 GMT -5
To the op, now bare with me. The scout was made in different caliber offerings, all of which has a case chamber. Measure for instance the diameter of of a 243 or 7mm08 and a 45-70 cases in comparison. Now look at max pressure for the smaller caliber. The scout barrels (should) be able to handle these pressures, but I would not push the extreme nor would I want to enjoy the recoil of such a load. Also there is yield strength and tensile strength to consider. I would not push the extreme on the scout platform as it is easily capable at 300yds with a 24-2500fps load with 275-300gr bullets. I don't disagree, but if I wanted a muzzleloader that pushed a 275gr - 300gr bullet at 2400 - 2500 fps, I'd just save my money and continue to use my 50cal Savage because it's been doing exactly that for me since I switched to the 300gr SST in 2008. The load you're talking about would be good for elk, and probably buffalo out to 300 yds. Does this load kill deer? Absolutely! It does more damage to a deer than ANYTHING I've seen. Admittedly, I haven't shot a deer with a 50BMG, 500 S&W carbine, 460 S&W carbine, or a 45 Raptor, but I can't imagine that any of those would be able to do noticeably more damage than what I'm doing with my Savage. It's rare that I shoot a deer with this load and don't end up throwing away most of one front shoulder. I'm sick and tired of throwing all that meat away. I can almost always drop a golf ball through the entrance wound on the rib cage, and a softball through the exit wound. As a young(er) man, I found the the carnage to be impressive. After 20 years of it, I'm sick and tired of the doing all the work just to have to turn around and throw away a noticeable amount of the reward. One cause for the excessive damage is the bullets design. SST projectiles have always been known to expand quickly. Another cause is the bullets momentum. The 300gr bullets retain their momentum WAY better than the 250gr cup and core bullets do which causes a lot more damage at the exit wound. I may be able to switch to a 250gr Barnes in my Savage and address both of these. Another cause is the velocity. This is a trade off. The higher the impact velocity, the more momentum the bullet has, and the more quickly it expands. The slower the muzzle velocity is, the more drop you have as the distance increases. I shoot a reasonable number of deer at 150 to 200 yds, and I am accustomed to placing my shots exactly where I want them (not within 3" of where I want them). For me, 2400 fps is already slower than I care for and its a compromise on my part. Another cause is simply the bullets diameter. Even on a big, mature buck, it's not possible to fit a .452 projectile between 2 ribs. These big projectiles are always going to turn bones into high speed frags on the entry wound. Nothing I can really change about that since a 40 cal is going to have the same effect. My primary goal in this adventure is to end up with a muzzle loading rifle that's capable of taking large whitetail deer with a maximum range of 300 yds, a practical range of 200 yds (no more than 1.5" high or 2" low) without consistently having to throw away an entire front shoulder due to meat damage, and I'd like to have MOA accuracy or better, but I'll take 1.5 MOA as a compromise. Of these goals, minimizing meat damage is the primary objective, flatter trajectory is secondary, and better accuracy is tertiary. It's possible that going to a 250gr Barnes at 2600 fps would be enough to reduce meet loss because the 250gr projectile will loose its momentum more quickly than a 300gr. The tougher construction of the Barnes will work against that objective so its a toss up as to whether I'd notice a difference or not. Going down to a 200gr 40 cal projectile further reduces the bullet's momentum even though the MV is noticeably higher. The higher MV also gives me a flatter trajectory. The question is how fast can the CVA Scout safely, and accurately push a 195gr Barnes projectile? I've found information posted stating that Reloader 7 can push that bullet 3000 fps with sub moa accuracy, but that person was not using a CVA Scout conversion. Reloader 7 is known to be much easier on sabots than 4198. Historically, it has been able to push saboted projectiles faster than any of the other powders, regardless of bullet weight. I'm not opposed to using 4198, N120, 4227, or any other powder for that matter, so long as I know that the Scout's barrel will be stronger than the sabot.... If you are getting meat damage, sorry but it’s your fault. I shoot a 275 Pittman at 2450 with my break action. If I get meat loss it’s because I failed to do my part on shot placement. End of story.
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Post by thelefthand on Jan 17, 2024 13:45:53 GMT -5
If you are getting meat damage, sorry but it’s your fault. I shoot a 275 Pittman at 2450 with my break action. If I get meat loss it’s because I failed to do my part on shot placement. End of story. Wow, what an arrogant response.
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Post by dennis on Jan 17, 2024 14:06:32 GMT -5
Shot placement, if I worry about ruining a shoulder I would have to pass on half the deer I shoot. I don't think buckeye is arrogant just realistic.I know him and he is a good shooter and calculating on his shots.
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Post by thelefthand on Jan 17, 2024 14:35:23 GMT -5
When shooting a whitetail deer with a 40 or 45 caliber rifle you are going to through away quite a bit of meat. Only way around it, in my opinion, is to shoot them in the head. In order to have enough velocity to cleanly kill at 300 yards, you will have to much velocity to kill at 50 yards without blowing the deer all to hell and back, to slow it down enough to minimize damage at 50 yards you won't have enough velocity to get to that 300 yard deer. So you have to take the good with the bad. Fair point. I expect to throw away some meat during firearms season (compared to archery), but I'd like to not loose the entire shoulder if I can help it. I only used a 40 cal projectile for one season and it was a pure lead Dead Center projectile from PR Bullets that I fired from a 50 cal Encore at around 2100 fps. I took a doe at around 130 yds, and a nice 13 pt buck at about 12 feet. Accuracy was great (not that I ended up needing it to be), but terminal performance sucked on both accounts. Both bullets took a drastic turn to the side after the first few inches of penetration. I bought my Savage ML about 6 months later and gave the Encore to my dad who has been shooting 250gr SSTs out of it ever since. I started off shooting the 250gr SST at around 2600 fps with a duplex load using 4198 and I think 5744. I ran that load for about 5 years and took deer from as close as 50 feet to just over 200 yds. Some deer were small yearlings, others were in the 200 lb range field dressed. I didn't keep track of them, but I'd estimate that I shot around 15 to 20 deer with that load. The bullet was always laying under the hide on the opposite side regardless of the size of the deer, and regardless of how far the shot was. I don't recall significant meat loss on those deer (compared to any other rifle cartridge). I only went away from that load because guys were reporting problems and my subsequent testing indicated that those bullets were prone to occasionally plain off course after the initial impact, where as the 300gr bullets always maintained a straight wound channel which is much more desirable IMHO. My hope has been that dropping back to a 250 gr monolithic will allow me to maintain a straight wound channel without quite as much damage to the meat around the exit wound, and my thought process is that using a 40cal projectile would take that a step further. Truth is that I may very well find that the 40 will shoot great for me, but the amount of meat damaged may be indiscernible from what I currently get using the 300gr SST. My current load generates nearly 4,000 ft lbs of ke at the muzzle, and 3,000 to 3,500 ft lbs at 50 to 100 yds. I don't think KE is a good way to evaluate performance, but it seems reasonable to think that a 40 cal load that starts out with 3400 ft lb at the muzzle, and is down to 2300-2800 ft lb at 50 to 100 yds would have a more tolerable amount of carnage. As far as shot placement, I'm fine with head and neck shots within 50 yds, and that makes some sense from a meat loss perspective. I've shot a few deer that way over the years for one reason or another, and the meat loss was certainly acceptable. Normally I aim just above the heart. I try to keep the bullet far enough forward to stay out of the liver. Just because I have a deer down, doesn't mean that I'm not going to hunt for the rest of the morning and into the afternoon. If I get into the liver, that nasty sewage has a long time to soak into the meat and that's not a acceptable outcome for me. That means I'm always catching one or both front legs depending on how the deer is standing when I take the shot, and there's still a chance that I'll blow bone fragments back into the liver. Any farther back, and I'm certain to take a large chunk of the liver out. Any further forward and I''ll normally be hitting both front legs wich typicallly leads to more meat loss. Higher puts me into both shoulder blades and more meat damage.
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Post by thelefthand on Jan 17, 2024 14:45:32 GMT -5
Shot placement, if I worry about ruining a shoulder I would have to pass on half the deer I shoot. I don't think buckeye is arrogant just realistic.I know him and he is a good shooter and calculating on his shots. I don't know buckeye, and I'm new here, so I'll give the benefit of the doubt. Maybe I just read his post wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. On that note, my apologies for the blunt response. "Shot placement, if I worry about ruining a shoulder I would have to pass on half the deer I shoot" - That's basically where I've been with my ML for the past 15 years, and it's one of the reasons I now use a Grendel or 300 BO during our firearms season. My savage has been killing deer for 3 decades. I'm trying to convince myself to do a Scout conversion. If I'm going to spend a grand on something, there needs to be a reason why, and "because I want to" isn't a good enough reason. After this discussion, I'm left asking myself what a CVA Scout conversion (or any other 45 cal ML for that matter) can do for me that I can't get from my existing Savage ML10-II?
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Post by SURESHOT on Jan 17, 2024 17:30:26 GMT -5
I had a SAVAGE ML for a few years and others around here in my area have had the Savage also, the reasons for change for me and many of the others here was the Accuracy, being very inconsistent with grouping at 100 a scatter gun, and having to use a sabot,a shot shell primer, with a breech plug that had to be clean and or vent liner changed out,and always cleaning to keep accuracy. At 200 yds and 300 yds nothing like the CVA SCOUT V2! With the conversion, accuracy is there 3 shots cover it with a quater or less, and at 2/3 hundred yards very accurate and deadly! I Use mag rifle primers,no sabot, shoots without cleaning, improved accuracy and as far as the front shoulder nothing there to worry with meat, at least 25 with 2 more coming here in my town and all are happy and the SAVAGE's are gone and still going.... most have sold the ML10II for the purchased of the CVA in fact one hunter uses his all year!
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Post by buckeye68 on Jan 17, 2024 18:45:40 GMT -5
If you are getting meat damage, sorry but it’s your fault. I shoot a 275 Pittman at 2450 with my break action. If I get meat loss it’s because I failed to do my part on shot placement. End of story. Wow, what an arrogant response. Facts are facts. You’re in control of your gun. May be an arrogant response but it’s the truth. Sorry I’ve shot deer at 2450 FPS with both shoulders trashed and I’ve shot deer at 3900 FPS with zero meat loss. It all come down to shot placement.
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Post by hillbill on Jan 17, 2024 19:42:31 GMT -5
Any time you fire a .45 caliber projectile at well over 2000 fps do we not expect to have significant meat loss? Like I've said recently, like shooting a grasshopper with a BB gun.
Yes, you can save meat by being very picky with shot placement but that's not always doable or realistic. You could shoot the little Barnes 195s from a sabot and accomplish what you are after I think but range will be limited, they have the BC of a brick.
What can a .45 do for you? Better accuracy better range less recoil with the right loads.
Yes I did the Savage .50 rodeo myself but soon realized that .45 cal was the ticket. Not saying the stock Savage .50 don't work, it still does for many but the .45 is just a better caliber. The Savage is what got me started in this stuff almost 20 years ago.
I can't attest to the Scout craze, I don't own one, Had a converted Apex which I soon converted to .40 cal but from all the posts lots of guys here use them. Lots of info if you dig a bit.
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Post by buckeye68 on Jan 17, 2024 21:11:05 GMT -5
If your on the fence about getting a Scout conversation then I would be asking myself is the Scout more accurate then your MLII or is your MLll more accurate than the Scout.
I personally believe that the Scout is way more accurate than my MLll. I was a happy camper when the tomato plant grew above the MLll tomato steak.
I reread your post and It sounds like your being very picking on your shots but are you being realist on damage? You’re wanting the perfect gun and bullet combo and trying to hit a very tiny window on a deer that has to be in the perfect position. I think you’re being very critical on losing ounces of meat.
Welcome to the board.
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Post by SURESHOT on Jan 18, 2024 8:48:04 GMT -5
SCOUT CRAZE, IMO Most go to the CVA SCOUT V2 for both Hunting and COST. On the Hunting side its compact, light, and accurate for the game being hunted mostly WHITETAIL, with cost (which I have both a CVA and Bolt guns) The bolt guns are heavy, long, as the CVA (very) accurate at 100 yards and at futher distances past 300 yards, which I hunt with both from time to time. With the bolt gun builds since I have purchased my two they have become more expensive, (due to ACTIONS and fiberglass STOCKS) some were costly before, such as a 45 XML.
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