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Post by isaiah on Mar 29, 2023 20:41:35 GMT -5
Just got my cva scout back from Jeff . ITS 4570 smokeless conversation, super excited to shoot it. I wanted to try some of my Hornaday bullets 200 grn ftx and 225 ftx. Any idea wear I should start with powder charges. I have IMR 4227 and IMR 4198. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by shindig on Mar 30, 2023 6:10:53 GMT -5
55gr would be a good starting point with 4198 and 50 gr with 4227 JMO. My break open is a 16 1/2 pistol (Encore) and I shoot 54gr IMR 4227 and a 265 Fury or 65 gr IMR 4198 and a 275 Accumax. Since you are using lighter bullets should be good with those starting points. Enjoy
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Post by isaiah on Mar 30, 2023 11:25:15 GMT -5
55gr would be a good starting point with 4198 and 50 gr with 4227 JMO. My break open is a 16 1/2 pistol (Encore) and I shoot 54gr IMR 4227 and a 265 Fury or 65 gr IMR 4198 and a 275 Accumax. Since you are using lighter bullets should be good with those starting points. Enjoy Thanks for the help.
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Post by isaiah on Mar 30, 2023 11:40:37 GMT -5
Your rifle has a chamber and though the chambers are pretty consistent in volume they do differ a little, my blued/blk scout chamber is 50gr with both H4198 and IMR4227, buckeye68's chamber is 53gr, not a lot of difference but a little. Make sure your loaded bullet is fully in the barrel. BTW 53gr 4227 with 275 or 300gr bullets performs very good in both the rifles mentioned. Excellent! great advise I will check my chamber with the direct loads to make sure the bullet is fully in the barrel. Thanks again.
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Post by buckeye68 on Mar 30, 2023 20:00:43 GMT -5
I used 53 grains of 4227 with 250, 265, 275 and 300 grain bullets. I tried 6 different makes and models of bullets and the top two were 265 Fury and the 275 Pittman’s. Then I shot each with and without a wad, both shot better without. I used 76 bullets from start to finish with my load development. I set up my die for 3 passes on the 275 Pittman’s. I can use the same die with the 265 Fury’s but with only one pass through. I normally use a different die for each bullet I shoot but the Fury’s are a lot softer than the Pittman’s. Once I set my die up after the 5th shot it hasn’t changed since.
My whole load development is ass backwards compared to what a lot of people do on this forum. I wanted to use the least amount of 4227 as possible with a DI modules. I started with minimum 53 grains do to my powder column and ended up shooting bug holes at 53.5 grains. I’m pushing them at 2450 FPS. I personally would never shoot a Pittman HC out of my break action at only 2450 FPS. I do use them in my big bolt gun with a added 1450 FPS.
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Post by isaiah on Mar 30, 2023 20:38:07 GMT -5
This is all good info. I got a ways to go!! What's a good way to check my powder columb? I'm alittle nervous know not really knowing how to do that.
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Post by buckeye68 on Mar 30, 2023 21:14:31 GMT -5
This is all good info. I got a ways to go!! What's a good way to check my powder columb? I'm alittle nervous know not really knowing how to do that. It’s very easy to do especially in a break action. Remove the plug and push a sized bullet 3/4 way down the barrel. . I use a flashlight and look through the breach end and just tap the bullet down the barrel till you see the base of the bullet and just a little bit of the rifling below it. Mark your ram rod accordingly. The mark is now used as a never never go below witness mark. Now you have two options. You can start out high and work your way down in grans or start out low and work your way up. I personally would start at 50 grains and work your way up. Use a spent module and load the gun. . If your mark is in the barrel you need to add powder. Unfortunately you now need to remove the plug and dump the power out. I just save the power and use it for your next test. When you get close to your mark use the flashlight and look at the base of the bullet, if you see your rifling below the bullet your good. It very easy, just time consuming. Make sure you keep the number so you only have to do it once. I’ve added a picture just so you can see what it should look like. As you can see I’m as close as I can be without going in the powder chamber.
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Post by isaiah on Mar 31, 2023 11:22:56 GMT -5
Thats perfect , I really appreciate the picture bukeye68. I'm going to get to work and figure it out. Thank you all for taking the time with a rookie.
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shoop
Junior Member
Posts: 58
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Post by shoop on Apr 4, 2023 12:18:24 GMT -5
I would recommend watching ALL of Jeff’s videos on YouTube if you have not ,just so your a little more familiar with everything , lots of great information
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Post by james72 on Apr 5, 2023 7:43:03 GMT -5
I used 53 grains of 4227 with 250, 265, 275 and 300 grain bullets. I tried 6 different makes and models of bullets and the top two were 265 Fury and the 275 Pittman’s. Then I shot each with and without a wad, both shot better without. I used 76 bullets from start to finish with my load development. I set up my die for 3 passes on the 275 Pittman’s. I can use the same die with the 265 Fury’s but with only one pass through. I normally use a different die for each bullet I shoot but the Fury’s are a lot softer than the Pittman’s. Once I set my die up after the 5th shot it hasn’t changed since. My whole load development is ass backwards compared to what a lot of people do on this forum. I wanted to use the least amount of 4227 as possible with a DI modules. I started with minimum 53 grains do to my powder column and ended up shooting bug holes at 53.5 grains. I’m pushing them at 2450 FPS. I personally would never shoot a Pittman HC out of my break action at only 2450 FPS. I do use them in my big bolt gun with a added 1450 FPS. Can you explain why you chose 4227 over 4198 for your break action gun - advantages or disadvantages if any? What would be considered the max load for 4227 in a CVA Scout? I'm guessing 4227 is a faster burning powder than 4198? I just ordered a DI plug and modules for my gun and still have about 2lbs of 4198, but might consider trying some 4227 if there are advantages. My goal is basically what you have already developed for your gun - 275 gr bullet at 2400-2500 fps without a wad if possible. I have been shooting 4198 with HIS, and have experienced some problems so far with reliable ignition (I think I have been sizing my bullets too small because I have a choked barrel). I believe switching to DI will solve a lot of my problems, but I'm also thinking switching powders or duplexing might be a next step if I'm still having problems.
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Post by buckeye68 on Apr 5, 2023 19:19:36 GMT -5
I used 53 grains of 4227 with 250, 265, 275 and 300 grain bullets. I tried 6 different makes and models of bullets and the top two were 265 Fury and the 275 Pittman’s. Then I shot each with and without a wad, both shot better without. I used 76 bullets from start to finish with my load development. I set up my die for 3 passes on the 275 Pittman’s. I can use the same die with the 265 Fury’s but with only one pass through. I normally use a different die for each bullet I shoot but the Fury’s are a lot softer than the Pittman’s. Once I set my die up after the 5th shot it hasn’t changed since. My whole load development is ass backwards compared to what a lot of people do on this forum. I wanted to use the least amount of 4227 as possible with a DI modules. I started with minimum 53 grains do to my powder column and ended up shooting bug holes at 53.5 grains. I’m pushing them at 2450 FPS. I personally would never shoot a Pittman HC out of my break action at only 2450 FPS. I do use them in my big bolt gun with a added 1450 FPS. Can you explain why you chose 4227 over 4198 for your break action gun - advantages or disadvantages if any? What would be considered the max load for 4227 in a CVA Scout? I'm guessing 4227 is a faster burning powder than 4198? I just ordered a DI plug and modules for my gun and still have about 2lbs of 4198, but might consider trying some 4227 if there are advantages. My goal is basically what you have already developed for your gun - 275 gr bullet at 2400-2500 fps without a wad if possible. I have been shooting 4198 with HIS, and have experienced some problems so far with reliable ignition (I think I have been sizing my bullets too small because I have a choked barrel). I believe switching to DI will solve a lot of my problems, but I'm also thinking switching powders or duplexing might be a next step if I'm still having problems. The reason why I picked 4227 because it will fatten up the bullet faster than 4198. Another reason was I wanted to shoot the least amount of powder to help reduce recoil because I was planning to turn it into a pistol. It is well established that DI is a hotter ignition system than HIS and with DI using a .080” flash hole vs .040” flash hole in HIS. More flame to the powder. My last CVA I had used a DI plug with 63 grains of H4198 and a 300 grain bullet. I had zero issue with FTF. Max load I would use is 55 grains of 4227. This worked will in my CVA and I’m super happy with how it preformed over and over again at the range and in the field. You’ll need to spend time at the bench to find the load that your gun likes.
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Post by james72 on Apr 5, 2023 21:24:02 GMT -5
Thanks for the info buckeye68. I'm looking forward to shooting my gun with the new DI plug. I've reset my die and sized some bullets a bit larger than what I shot last time. I want to try those with and without a wad with the 4198. If I still can't get it to shoot consistently, I will try some 4227 starting at my powder chamber minimum and working up to 55 grains.
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Post by buckeye68 on Apr 6, 2023 3:48:15 GMT -5
Thanks for the info buckeye68. I'm looking forward to shooting my gun with the new DI plug. I've reset my die and sized some bullets a bit larger than what I shot last time. I want to try those with and without a wad with the 4198. If I still can't get it to shoot consistently, I will try some 4227 starting at my powder chamber minimum and working up to 55 grains. Only change one thing at a time that way you know what fixed your issue with FTF. Since you’ve already changed your die, I would try to shoot it with your HIS plug. Then if that doesn’t work change to the DI plug then to 4227. Make sure you take all the necessary tool with you to the range to make your plug swap and powder change.
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Post by olegburn on Apr 7, 2023 21:30:36 GMT -5
This is all good info. I got a ways to go!! What's a good way to check my powder columb? I'm alittle nervous know not really knowing how to do that. It’s very easy to do especially in a break action. Remove the plug and push a sized bullet 3/4 way down the barrel. . I use a flashlight and look through the breach end and just tap the bullet down the barrel till you see the base of the bullet and just a little bit of the rifling below it. Mark your ram rod accordingly. The mark is now used as a never never go below witness mark. Now you have two options. You can start out high and work your way down in grans or start out low and work your way up. I personally would start at 50 grains and work your way up. Use a spent module and load the gun. . If your mark is in the barrel you need to add powder. Unfortunately you now need to remove the plug and dump the power out. I just save the power and use it for your next test. When you get close to your mark use the flashlight and look at the base of the bullet, if you see your rifling below the bullet your good. It very easy, just time consuming. Make sure you keep the number so you only have to do it once. I’ve added a picture just so you can see what it should look like. As you can see I’m as close as I can be without going in the powder chamber. Is this a picture of a powder chamber in a bolt gun or CVA?
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Post by buckeye68 on Apr 7, 2023 22:03:37 GMT -5
It is a picture of my bolt gun. The picture was taken with my Teslong bore scope.
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Post by buckeye68 on Apr 7, 2023 22:08:19 GMT -5
I went back and found a picture of my CVA when I was measuring the powder chamber. Picture was taken with my phone.
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Post by whatever on Aug 27, 2023 14:09:33 GMT -5
CVA Scout , 300 grain XTP, IMR 4198 powder, wool wads
This would be for whitetail. Hoping for around 2400 fps
How many grains should I start at please?
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Post by reaperhunterkuks on Aug 27, 2023 14:45:25 GMT -5
I used 53 grains of 4227 with 250, 265, 275 and 300 grain bullets. I tried 6 different makes and models of bullets and the top two were 265 Fury and the 275 Pittman’s. Then I shot each with and without a wad, both shot better without. I used 76 bullets from start to finish with my load development. I set up my die for 3 passes on the 275 Pittman’s. I can use the same die with the 265 Fury’s but with only one pass through. I normally use a different die for each bullet I shoot but the Fury’s are a lot softer than the Pittman’s. Once I set my die up after the 5th shot it hasn’t changed since. My whole load development is ass backwards compared to what a lot of people do on this forum. I wanted to use the least amount of 4227 as possible with a DI modules. I started with minimum 53 grains do to my powder column and ended up shooting bug holes at 53.5 grains. I’m pushing them at 2450 FPS. I personally would never shoot a Pittman HC out of my break action at only 2450 FPS. I do use them in my big bolt gun with a added 1450 FPS. I think I am pretty close to where you are at. I just got back from the range. 53.5 grains IMR 4227 with a 275 gr fury. Grouped as well as I can shoot without a sled. 3/4” at 100 yards. Average fps was 2487 through the chrono. Question….I am just about 3” high at 100 yards. Hoping I will be close to a 200 yard zero. Thoughts? It will be a while before I can get to a range I can shoot 200.
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Post by james72 on Aug 27, 2023 20:31:45 GMT -5
Glad to hear you got good groups with 53.5 grains. I originally tried 4227 after reading buckeye's posts and really loved the way my gun shot compared to using 4198. I think you will be very close to a 200 yard zero. My last groups using 54g and a 278g Accumax averaged 2575 FPS through my chrono. My bullet drop was about 2.5 inches from 100 to 200 yards.
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sqezer
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by sqezer on Oct 11, 2023 20:25:12 GMT -5
This is what I came up with, I used a used 270 center fired case took the breech plug out and inserted the 270 case backwards into the breech plug area and up against the bottom of the rifle area (shoulder) and held it in place with a finger then pushed the bullet up against it to make sure it wasn't into the Powder Chamber. Works like a charm. Just my two cents. Then mark the ram rod and never go below that mark.
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