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Post by herman on Sept 26, 2019 9:32:48 GMT -5
Tuesday I decided I wanted to see if using a wad with the 275 furys made a difference. Here is what I got with both ways.On target and speed. This is with my brux barrel. I wanted to try it with my pac-nor but I didn't have the bullets sized right so tried a couple shots with having to beat them down the barrel and they were all over the target so gave up on it till I resized them.This tells me that if the bullets are too tight ,they won't shoot good. First off 78 grs H4198 275 fury star tip With wad:Avg.=2959 fps E/s= 34 s/d= 17.1 Without wad: avg =2970fps e/s =14 s/d = 5.5 300 yd target  |
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Post by joelmoney on Sept 26, 2019 9:43:14 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing Herman. I had similar results with my CVA Hunter and 275gr AccuMax and 325gr Aeromax bullets. My experience was with Direct Ignition.
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Post by Richard on Sept 26, 2019 10:01:31 GMT -5
I have always found Kyle's bullets to shoot best WITH OUT a wad also! On the other hand, a Hornady SST will keyhole WITHOUT a wad! Tougher jacket causes less obturation! Same goes for the Barnes TEZ's...........very accurate with a wad but terrible without!
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Post by Kyle on Sept 26, 2019 12:05:20 GMT -5
Guns that shoot reduced charges are the ones that typically benefit from the use of a wad.
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Post by hillbill on Sept 26, 2019 14:17:01 GMT -5
I recently recrowned my .45 Apex and added a brake, I have a guy that wants it so I made these changes for him.
I shot it last weekend with 58 grains of H-4198, direct ignition, wool wad and the 275 accumax, also added a Vortex Viper Hs 4x14, all 4 shots were touching at 105 yds, this little sucker will shoot!
The wool wad certainly didn't hurt it any!
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Post by 12point on Sept 26, 2019 16:27:00 GMT -5
blackpowder72 has shot his both ways and he's had better luck with the wad. He can answer more about what he's done than I.
I'm a week or 2 out from seeing what my Hankins build will do for me.
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Post by kbrezlin on Sept 26, 2019 20:34:57 GMT -5
I had the new build out a few weeks ago to get dialed in. 70 grains 4198, 300 Accumax, in a 26” Brux 1-20, HIS ignition. With dry wool wads I had some vertical stringing, eliminated the wads and put 3 downrange you could cover with a dime at 100 yards. I will probably try them again to confirm, but that was my experience.
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Post by blackpowder72 on Sept 27, 2019 19:46:17 GMT -5
blackpowder72 has shot his both ways and he's had better luck with the wad. He can answer more about what he's done than I. I'm a week or 2 out from seeing what my Hankins build will do for me. Yes last weekend. CVA Scout V2 first 3 shot group 60gr 4198 , no wad, 275gr Accumax was 1in at 100 yards. Second 3 shot group 60gr 4198 , wool wad , 275gr Accumax was 1/2 -5/8 in clover leafed group at 2518 fps. HIS ignition. |
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Post by blackpowder72 on Sept 28, 2019 6:27:22 GMT -5
Guns that shoot reduced charges are the ones that typically benefit from the use of a wad. Kyle when you say "reduced charge " what is your opinion on when that number starts? Less than 65gr ? 60gr ? Just curious. |
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Post by Richard on Sept 28, 2019 7:59:01 GMT -5
I doubt anyone could put an exact number on "reduced?". That would be more or less a "trial and error" type of thing? What a reduced charge for my gun might not be the same for yours? Type of bullet, sizing, type of powder, barrel twist rate, seating pressure.
Smokeless muzzleloading is not always a "slam-dunk!". Bench time is where you get it sorted out!
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Post by hillbill on Sept 28, 2019 8:03:31 GMT -5
Bullet construction dictates the use of a wad for the most part, back before Kyle got in the bullet business I shot Parker Match Hunters most of the time, they normally needed a wad even at speeds over 2600 FPS, they have a thicker jacket and are harder to obturate, i was also using 209 ignition but I don't think that made much difference.
With Parker BEs I didn't have to have a wad (thinner jacket)
With the 275 Accumax and 4198 I think the threshold is in the 26-2700 FPS range BUT I have seen break action guns shoot well without a wad in the 2500 range also, most do better with a wad though.
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Post by Ice on Sept 28, 2019 9:49:03 GMT -5
blackpowder72 has shot his both ways and he's had better luck with the wad. He can answer more about what he's done than I. I'm a week or 2 out from seeing what my Hankins build will do for me. Yes last weekend. CVA Scout V2 first 3 shot group 60gr 4198 , no wad, 275gr Accumax was 1in at 100 yards. Second 3 shot group 60gr 4198 , wool wad , 275gr Accumax was 1/2 -5/8 in clover leafed group at 2518 fps. HIS ignition. One of the things that I keep reminding myself in situations like these is deer moa vs target moa. If I were competing then I’d use a wad to get 1/2” on paper, but for a hunting load out as far as I’m capable, moa is far sufficient with out a wad. Then I don’t have an extra “thing” to do in the field. I always try to KISS (keep it simple stupid) for the field, and a wad although minor, is a step away from simple. Just my 2 cents. |
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Post by outdoors81 on Sept 28, 2019 10:04:32 GMT -5
Sorry to get off the original topic, but will using a wad help with ignition on lighter charges of 4198? Charges would be 55 to 60 grains and a 250 or 275gr bullet?
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Post by Ice on Sept 28, 2019 10:21:44 GMT -5
Sorry to get off the original topic, but will using a wad help with ignition on lighter charges of 4198? Charges would be 55 to 60 grains and a 250 or 275gr bullet? Gotcha. Ignition is a must for hunting not 1/2” accuracy at 100 yards. |
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Post by Richard on Sept 28, 2019 11:01:42 GMT -5
This whole subject is very complex! Many things factor into getting a bullet from inside your bore to land accurately on its intended target. Different types of ignition such as a 209 system with a vent liner or bushing, a HIS (Hanks Ignition System) using large rifle primer in conjunction with a bushing or even without a bushing as some have played with, DI (Direct Ignition) using a large rifle primer with no bushing exiting thru a .080" 1/2" hole directly into the powder charge. All of these systems will ignite powder charges differently and create greater or lesser pressures? Now add in the the burning rate of the powder used: Faster powders raise the pressure quicker and can cause obturation of the bullet faster. Slow powders need heavy bullets to cause pressures to build. Bullet construction dictates how pressures effects their expansion or obturation. Wads will also help seal the groves until pressure builds.
This is a very interesting subject and very hard to cover in one thread. This is the kind of stuff that gets discussed when a bunch of shooters with like interests get together.............such as at the Kentucky Challenge!
C
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Sept 28, 2019 15:10:38 GMT -5
This whole subject is very complex! Many things factor into getting a bullet from inside your bore to land accurately on its intended target. Different types of ignition such as a 209 system with a vent liner or bushing, a HIS (Hanks Ignition System) using large rifle primer in conjunction with a bushing or even without a bushing as some have played with, DI (Direct Ignition) using a large rifle primer with no bushing exiting thru a .080" 1/2" hole directly into the powder charge. All of these systems will ignite powder charges differently and create greater or lesser pressures? Now add in the the burning rate of the powder used: Faster powders raise the pressure quicker and can cause obturation of the bullet faster. Slow powders need heavy bullets to cause pressures to build. Bullet construction dictates how pressures effects their expansion or obturation. Wads will also help seal the groves until pressure builds. This is a very interesting subject and very hard to cover in one thread. This is the kind of stuff that gets discussed when a bunch of shooters with like interests get together.............such as at the Kentucky Challenge! C I totally aggree Drop |
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gar
Junior Member
Posts: 85 
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Post by gar on Sept 28, 2019 15:26:35 GMT -5
I use a wad exclusively, not so much for accuracy as no wad usage shoots good also. I use wads as an extra layer of insurance to prevent any moisture migrating towards the powder for extended periods of inaction during our normally damp conditions in deer season. I have left the gun loaded for 22 days in a blind day and night and still shot where it needed to on last day of ML season. this is mid November to mid December seasons.
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Post by hillbill on Sept 28, 2019 15:53:44 GMT -5
gar brings up a good point of discussion, yes without a wad moisture CAN get to your powder, had it happen once, not on an animal when I pulled the trigger thankfully, after that I changed my loading routine for my hunting rig.
Here is what I do when I'm hunting if my load is with OR without a wad: I either use a small balloon over the brake or cut the finger from a latex glove and slide it over, that way I don't have to worry about moisture getting down the barrel, I seldom forget to do this, if I do I carry gloves in my pack for field dressing and will use one.
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gar
Junior Member
Posts: 85
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Post by gar on Sept 28, 2019 18:48:52 GMT -5
I do the barrel condom thing also, no effect on accuracy.
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Post by Tarheel on Sept 30, 2019 6:23:00 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing Herman. I had similar results with my CVA Hunter and 275gr AccuMax and 325gr Aeromax bullets. My experience was with Direct Ignition. Do you have to resize the AccuMax or Aeromax for you CVA Hunter? |
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