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Post by dennis on Aug 21, 2017 9:14:20 GMT -5
I may be speaking out of school, but my wife used to work for an lawyer an I have heard her tell several people that if you have a song, or idea, or invention, to write it down, design etc. and mail it to yourself but don't open it and later if someone tries to capitalize on you idea you are covered so far as copy-wright or patent. I don't have any personal of professional Knowledge of any of this though. It may be just that simple. Wish I'd have known and tried that out years ago when I told a friend people will buy anything and that you could bag crap and sell it. It wasn't very long after you could buy dehydrated manure in bags.
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Post by boonechaser on Aug 21, 2017 9:21:04 GMT -5
Hank said: {Even those guys on that other board that ridiculed and criticized my system years ago are now either shooting a LRMP system or making one that is like mine and selling it as a "Patent Pending" Gen 2 system.} I wondered for a long time if you noticed the patent pending thing. Did you know if true he will have a patent with a minor modification on your invention and what the repercussions of that might be ? In the US, a 10% design change is enough to work around patent laws. So, just having a different thread size, pitch and length would get it through. Moving the module and shortening the flame path, seals a patent. not sure why anyone would take the time and money to patent anything, especially for something with such a small following in the scheme of things. Besides everyone knows that most the builders have taken ideas from each other... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 9:29:45 GMT -5
Hank said: {Even those guys on that other board that ridiculed and criticized my system years ago are now either shooting a LRMP system or making one that is like mine and selling it as a "Patent Pending" Gen 2 system.} I wondered for a long time if you noticed the patent pending thing. Did you know if true he will have a patent with a minor modification on your invention and what the repercussions of that might be ? In the US, a 10% design change is enough to work around patent laws. So, just having a different thread size, pitch and length would get it through. Moving the module and shortening the flame path, seals a patent. not sure why anyone would take the time and money to patent anything, especially for something with such a small following in the scheme of things. Besides everyone knows that most the builders have taken ideas from each other... Very well stated and nice pun. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 10:04:26 GMT -5
Hank said: {Even those guys on that other board that ridiculed and criticized my system years ago are now either shooting a LRMP system or making one that is like mine and selling it as a "Patent Pending" Gen 2 system.} I wondered for a long time if you noticed the patent pending thing. Did you know if true he will have a patent with a minor modification on your invention and what the repercussions of that might be ? There are none. There must be a less than 20% difference to be considered copyright infringement. The system that supposedly has a patent pending is a great deal different in more than one way. 1) 9/16-18 threads that are 1.3" long vs Jeff's break open plug that has 9/16-24 threads that are 1 inch long vs Jeff's original HIS plug that has 5/8-18 threads that are 1 inch long. 2) There are differences in the I'D and length of the cavity forward of the bushing. 3) The bushing are of different sizes and install totally opposite. 4) Jeff's bushing is serviceable where the Gen 2 is not. 5) The modules are different too. |
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Post by YankeeReb on Aug 21, 2017 16:58:49 GMT -5
Boonechaser; {not sure why anyone would take the time and money to patent anything, especially for something with such a small following in the scheme of things. Besides everyone knows that most the builders have taken ideas from each other...} Because Ken Johnston got paid over $700k from Remington for his ignition system.
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Post by boonechaser on Aug 21, 2017 17:19:41 GMT -5
Boonechaser; {not sure why anyone would take the time and money to patent anything, especially for something with such a small following in the scheme of things. Besides everyone knows that most the builders have taken ideas from each other...} Because Ken Johnston got paid over $700k from Remington for his ignition system. And I doubt in our lifetime another big mfg will get into the smokeless game after Savage. The plug that Remington is using fires the upper end of "safe" black powder loads. Don't see another mfg paying for anything different for a niche group. |
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Post by buckstuds on Aug 21, 2017 18:31:11 GMT -5
Next year it will be all modules, no more bushings.
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Post by Hank on Aug 22, 2017 19:43:22 GMT -5
My point to this post was to let people know that as a whole we are beginning to switch over to the LRMP systems. I really don't care who copies my system, There are several people doing it, that's good for my business. There are several people that have tried to copy it and totally messed up and now I am getting phone call after phone call to see if I can fix their new rifle that just don't work correctly. Patenting something as simple as an ignition system, to me is wasting hard earned money. When I developed my system years ago, I thought about patenting it, but after a few phone calls and a long conversation with a patent lawyer I decided it would be money wasted. My patent lawyer told me that even though you can patent the design, ignition systems themselves have been around for years. So simple changes to the design would allow someone to make a system similar to mine and be 100% legal in doing so. So I decided instead of wasting a bunch of money on a patent that I would have to try an re-coop in higher price sales of my system I would just forgo the patent and sell my system at a fair market price to anyone that wanted to use it. This brought me to Doug's board, where I introduced my ignition system and I was told by the high and mighty over there that it would not work and that what I claimed to be facts was nothing more than a sales pitch. ,,,,,,,,,I was called a used car salesman that only wanted to move product,,,,,,,,,,,, Now look at those same guys,,,,,,,,, Shooting a LRMP system............... Why?  Because they knew if they wanted to keep up with the times they would have to switch over to what works the best. So my system is copied and now being marked as the best LRMP system available. Hey,,, I hope it is,, We all want to see improvements. Advancements in this sport will continue to come about. But to copy something they were so dead set against, so unwilling to give it a chance when I offered it to that board, now using it as their mainstay, must taste like crow................. I told them way back when it would come to this... and it has. Now I am not trying to say that everyone should through away their 209 system. it works, it has worked for years and will continue to work for many more years to come......But if your going to invest the money in building a new SPML and you have nothing to start with,,,,, It only makes sense to build on a center fire action and a HIS original ignition system. Every copy cat system that I have seen has its short comings........ I do offer my system for sale to other builders and many builders have bought my system and now use only my system to build their SPML's. So if you need me to build it, or if you want to build it yourself, my system is available to you. As for patents, I will leave that up to the ones that have more money than they have sense. |
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Post by dp on Aug 23, 2017 22:31:32 GMT -5
Jeff, you make some very valid points but similar points can be made about the 40 caliber and other subscribers and the junk that was talked. I guess all of us ain't too big and bad to eat a little humble crow pie every once in a while. The innovation battles only help us consumers in the lo by run except for going broke trying to keep up!
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Post by speedrackin on Aug 24, 2017 5:50:50 GMT -5
Just keep up the good work Jeff its that plain and simple ........
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Post by hillbill on Aug 24, 2017 7:50:17 GMT -5
One thing you can bet on
The Gents on this board will be at the forefront of this game, there are a lot of innovators here and things will continue to evolve.
The .40 will be a hot number for years to come simply because of new bullet offerings,the major drawback to the .40 for years has been the lack of good bullets. it don't matter what caliber it is, as long as there are good bullets to shoot the guns will be very accurate.
You will see a lot of new guns soon in .40 cal. While it's not legal in several states there are many that it is legal.
good ideas are not exclusive to anyone or any specific group, lots of guys have good ideas but they come to life when men put their heads together and bring their ideas from a sheet of paper to a working useable object, it happens here on a fairly regular basis.
I am proud to be associated with all of you here, it's a great group of guys.
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Post by tnhunter54 on Aug 24, 2017 8:20:33 GMT -5
Very well said Bill, and I agree completely.
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Post by bakaboy on Sept 8, 2017 16:36:23 GMT -5
I haven't been participating in the forums for awhile, but I got online and read Jeff's HIS story and it brought back back memories. I remember going whole hog into the 209 system when I first discovered "Dougs". I was soon building several guns (or having guys like Richard build them -- doing a great job) and going through all the 209 headaches -- stuck primers, burned out bushings, unreliable ignition, and various plug configurations. When Jeff came on board to Dougs, I immediately recognized the advantages of the HIS and ordered a few myself. It was only natural that many shooters with a vested interest in 209 systems (they either owned many or sold 209 systems) would resent a newcomer with a better system. Not me. I was happy to sell or give away my 209 systems, never to use or be abused by them again. Hey, is Hill Bill still alive? Sounds like Jeff is still having Challenges -- I still intend to get to one someday.
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Post by joelmoney on Sept 8, 2017 17:46:33 GMT -5
Thanks Gentleman for all the work you have done and sharing the knowledge. Thanks Jeff for not backing down and starting this site.
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Post by eml9 on Sept 8, 2017 21:24:30 GMT -5
Hillbill is still alive he just built me a 45 on the new kash ml action hopefully he can get her sent out soon ml season is in three weeks for me ! Lol
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