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Post by Hank on Jun 5, 2017 19:19:47 GMT -5
Please vote for or against classes at the Kentucky Challenge. You can vote anonymously if you wish, or you can state your vote and reasons for or against in a post below. I do hope everyone will vote. weather you have been to the shoots or not, what would you like to see if you were to attend.
Thanks,,, Jeff.
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Post by Richard on Jun 5, 2017 21:58:35 GMT -5
Definitely yes. It is the only way members can come, compete and not think they are being thrown to the wolves.
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Post by critter on Jun 6, 2017 11:48:46 GMT -5
the more knowledge that the new guys can get the faster the great sport of SML can grow.from what i can see at the kentuckey challange on utube the best of the best is there and thoes are the type of guys i would love to learn more about the sport from.thanks for the opitunity to speek. Ihope to get down south to the camp on the river.
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Post by Hank on Jun 6, 2017 17:26:30 GMT -5
I would like to see some opinions on this subject, if anyone would like to voice their thoughts.
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Jun 6, 2017 17:43:21 GMT -5
I haven't voted as of yet. Waiting to see some opinions and reasoning on both sides of the issue. Watching with great interest though. However I will vote. Just not completely decided as of yet. Drop
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Post by jimbob on Jun 6, 2017 18:01:19 GMT -5
Are you going to have light gun ( under 17# ) and heavy gun ( unlimited ) in bench rest class ?
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Post by Hank on Jun 6, 2017 18:54:17 GMT -5
We haven't decided as of yet what classes will be established. Right now I am just trying to get a feel weather or not you guys would want to see classes. The only difference at the end of the day is that their would be more than one winner. I personally don't see anything wrong with that. Every sport weather it be car racing or archery has classes, so my thoughts are we should have some also. Now I'm not going to make a bunch of rules to the point that it makes the Kentucky Challenge no fun. We just want to establish some guide lines.
I will let this thread ride out for a while longer and then we can start talking about how we want to set up the classes (if any at all). I hope to hear from all of you that have attended the shoots, you guys are ultimately the ones that will be making the call.
Some of you that have shot competition in the past can post up some ideas as how it is done in other competition types of shooting.
Separating us in a few classes won't make us less of friends, just makes a few more first place winners. Its up yo you guys.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 19:19:10 GMT -5
When the Kentucky Challenge started it seemed to me that it was mainly for a bunch of guys to get together to shoot, have a little competition, and learn. Along with fellowship and meeting board members. There are a lot of people that are still learning the smokeless Muzzleloader game and this event is a great way for people to learn. You start throwing classes and rules into the mix then it intimidates the newer person. They might not be as inclined to come and miss out on all the fun and food.
Earlier I mentioned maybe a break open, Hunter, and bench rest class but the more I think about it maybe have a class that is for the die hard bench rest shooters that must have rules to live and die for and let them compete against each other. And let the rest of the people just shoot to better themselves and have a little friendly competition.
Competitive Class
Sportsman Class
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 19:34:55 GMT -5
It seems to me the main objective is to entice more shooters to show up and compete with rifles of different purpose. 3 classes would fit the bill. Break Open, Light Gun/Hunter, and Unlimited Benchrest. Shooters would need to be limited to shooting only one class per rifle as time will be a valuable commodity. Unlimited optics in all classes so as not to exclude anyone. You could limit the Light Gun/Hunter to for example, less than 10 to 15 pounds (to be decided). Unlimited class is wide open...anything goes. This way, the shoot stays the same AND we add some classes for hunters and break opens. This makes it easy for anyone attending to shoot, allows for 3 winners and still maintains the "Our Range Unlimited class Kentucky Challenge winner". Just my thoughts.
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Post by Richard on Jun 6, 2017 19:52:16 GMT -5
Well put Scat...I agree. The fun is in the competition!
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Post by hillbill on Jun 6, 2017 20:01:14 GMT -5
The key is more participation with no one excluded no matter the size of the bat. and the thing is it's not just about guns and optics but we want to hear ideas of how to make things fun for all attendees.
We are not dead set on having classes, we just want to make things more enjoyable.
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Post by dennis on Jun 6, 2017 20:46:38 GMT -5
I like the idea of a couple different classes. I used to own a late model stock car but could not compete against those with much deeper pockets. As in most things with equal abilities better equipment will prevail. I won't let that or weather there are classes or not keep me away as long as I am able to be there I will, just because I enjoy being around such a bunch of like minded great friends. And I'm addicted to the smell of gun powder and deadeye's kitchen.
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Post by bestill458 on Jun 6, 2017 20:55:12 GMT -5
My personal experience only involves 4 yrs of competition shooting inline muzzleloader at friendship. When this class opened it grew for couple years and only one class. Yes there was some out classed rifles but competition grew and was very fun. And many got better competition rifles and some just enjoyed the shooting and learning to be a better shooter with there rifle.
As many know over last few years more rules and more classes and more winners and LESS SHOOTERS
My opinion is once classes and regs start more people have opinions whats right and wrong. The fun shooting has became volatile and divisive.
More classes and regs has reduced shooters.
I guess as ive followed this subject on Kentucky challenge its showing to be a tick divisive.
I have attended 3 shoots and could care less about classes or winning. I shoot blackhorn powder at 2200 fps and i want to shoot against the best. My personal goal is to learn and improve .
I know the world we live in everybody wants to be a winner and be 1 st.
I have no problem being last place if i do my best and get beat bye a 270 or a cyclops.
I like the challenge just as it is. No classes no regs no debate. Just shoot and learn Thanks
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Post by linebaugh on Jun 7, 2017 7:25:42 GMT -5
Change the course of fire and make it one class. Add some offhand shooting or positional shooting that does not rely expressly on a bench and bench gear. Muzzleloaders are not supposed to be bench guns even though they shoot like them sometimes. Just break the course of fire up in different positions that allow the entire field of shooters to compete. If you have a 30# gun have fun shooting it offhand at 100 yards for one course of fire. If you have a light gun have fun shooting it off the bench at 500... or whatever it may be.
Just getting off the bench for the bulk of the shots will cause a lot of shooters greif because nobody seems to shoot anything but bench anymore.
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Post by hammer on Jun 7, 2017 10:42:46 GMT -5
Maybe a opt out option would appeal to some shooters? By opting out the shooter would shoot during the competition but their targets would not be added to the tally sheet. This would remove the stress of the competition and they will have the targets to take home. I think this might be more enjoyable for some shooters especially new ones just getting started.
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Post by hillbill on Jun 7, 2017 12:19:03 GMT -5
That's very doable.
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Post by dannoboone on Jun 7, 2017 12:45:45 GMT -5
Maybe a opt out option would appeal to some shooters? By opting out the shooter would shoot during the competition but their targets would not be added to the tally sheet. This would remove the stress of the competition and they will have the targets to take home. I think this might be more enjoyable for some shooters especially new ones just getting started. ^Best idea so far!^This should make the rules & regs guys happy as well as those who just want a fun shoot and learning experience as it has been in the past. For reasons given in the past, I'll probably never have the opportunity to get away for the Challenge. If it happens to become possible, this ol' redneck fart would take "informal" over "formal" any day of the week. Get too technical, and there is a risk of driving people away rather than attracting them.
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Post by Richard on Jun 7, 2017 14:01:47 GMT -5
This whole shoot is informal? This is NOT a registered match? There is no such thing as registered smoke less muzzle loader matches. No matter how we end up doing this, everyone will be able to say..........for instance: I shot the best of all the shooters who used break action rifles or based on the weight of rifles in my imaginary class, "I shot the highest total score or total smallest group of all the members using weight rifles" and let it go at that. I can see where the polling is getting kind of split and rather than make a big hullabalou out of it, I would be willing to modify my vote to keep it simple. I have come up with an idea to re purpose the old targets we used (moderators see the moderator section) so it appears more simple. Hope the other moderators like it and if so, Hank can post it here. Just a mock up......we will see! These would be re printed on the back of the existing targets of which Hank has probably 1,000 or more!
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Post by schunter on Jun 7, 2017 14:02:22 GMT -5
I like the Kentucky Challenge mostly just like it is. I don't want to be in a class that gives me a better chance to win. I want to shoot against the best to push me to get better. Where I finish really doesn't matter as I am no bench shooter just a plain ole hunter that likes to shoot small groups so I cant blame my equipment when I make a bad shot on an animal.
I especially don't want to see any money involved in the shoot. For fun afterwards I am all for it.
I have played golf for money and fished lots of bass tournaments for money. In the end I quit doing them both because it took the fun out of it and I lost some friends along the way.
I am very competitive and sometimes that gets in the way.
My only goals when I went to my first Kentucky Challenge were to meet some of the guys that were as passionate/addicted to muzzleloaders as I am and learn as much as I could. When I got home my daughter asked me if I had fun with my internet friends and I said each time I have got back that I had a blast!
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Post by Hank on Jun 7, 2017 16:36:28 GMT -5
Maybe a opt out option would appeal to some shooters? By opting out the shooter would shoot during the competition but their targets would not be added to the tally sheet. This would remove the stress of the competition and they will have the targets to take home. I think this might be more enjoyable for some shooters especially new ones just getting started. This has always been an option. I have always said that we are here for the fun of it and you don't have to shoot in our fun match to be able to attend and shoot all you want. I have had several people ask me about making a few classes, (these guys were shooters at the Kentucky Challenge)They said there was no way they could beat they heavy weight guns there. I told them I would be ok with a few classes but I would have to run it by the rest of the guys to see how they feel. I personally like the idea of a few classes and I hope the vote for making a few classes will pass.
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