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Post by Yankee Bill on Feb 11, 2016 21:09:28 GMT -5
Initially, I was planning on running 195 Barnes / n-110 / HLBS for my hunting load in my new Apex conversion. But with the issues Barnes is currently having with the 195, and the bullets uncertain future as it pertains to us sabot shooters, I've began searching for other Copper bullet options for my gun. Which leads me to the sabotless side.
I wanted to try some the 250 Barnes TEZ's Sabotless in my Apex. I'd like to use a single charge of H / I-4198 (or even the n-110 if that might work) without a Wad, and see if I can get them to shoot. Seems I'll likely have to run them pretty hot to get any accuracy /obturation as most guys are getting best results duplexing them.
In your opinion what would be the max amount of H/I 4198 / N-110 I could safely run w/ a 250 sabotless bullet in my Apex?
I'm guestimating 60-65g. 4198, but not sure if 65g may be pushing the limit too much for an Apex.
I'd prefer to use N-110 if that would work as I already have some, not sure of how much of it would be upper end.
Sorry for sounding so ignorant, but I haven't researched shooting sabotless much as I had intended to shoot sabots, and would rather be safe than sorry.
Appreciate any advice you may have to offer.
Thanks,
YB
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Post by YankeeReb on Feb 11, 2016 21:26:42 GMT -5
If you want to use a single with that bullet spank them hard with a dose of 4759 about 35 to 40gr should get you there.
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Post by Richard on Feb 11, 2016 23:18:34 GMT -5
You could use the same dose of N-110 as long as you have some. They both run pretty close in burn rate and have been used interchangeably in many a duplex.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Feb 11, 2016 23:48:37 GMT -5
N110 will make a bit more pressure than 4759 in that application according to the traces ive seen.
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Post by Yankee Bill on Feb 11, 2016 23:55:19 GMT -5
Thanks guys.
So then would 40g of N-110 be pushing at the upper limits of that powder w/ a 250 sabotless bullets in the Apex?
I've been trying to find some published data but to no avail.
YB
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Post by GMB54-120 on Feb 12, 2016 0:00:26 GMT -5
42gr of N110 and a 225gr FTX is around 42kpsi. Plus rise to peak is very fast. If we compare N110 vs 4759 45x40 sabots loads with a 200gr SST, N110 is making nearly 400 more fps than 4759 and over 35Kpsi with just 35gr. The same sabot load with 35gr of 4759 is only around 26Kpsi.
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Post by Yankee Bill on Feb 12, 2016 0:24:19 GMT -5
I've only got about 1/5 of an 8 oz. can of 4759 left and haven't been able to locate anymore since it's been discontinued so I don't want to use that (unless anyone knows where I can buy a couple of pounds  ). I love that powder, used it in my H.B. Savage.
I don't need the speed for my hunting application as my shots are typically at bow hunting ranges, so I would use the least amount of powder that gave me decent accuracy/obturation. This is also why I want to stay with Copper bullets, even if I do have to push them fast I don't have to worry about the devastation that some of the more frangible bullets cause at these short distances. Just trying to figure out what a safe max load might be incase I have to go that high to get decent accuracy.
Thanks, YB |
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Post by buckstuds on Feb 12, 2016 7:17:54 GMT -5
My apex shot the 275bes awesome and killed deer flat with 4198. I bet kyles bullets would work even better.
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Post by Yankee Bill on Feb 12, 2016 8:04:24 GMT -5
My apex shot the 275bes awesome and killed deer flat with 4198. I bet kyles bullets would work even better. Thanks buckstuds. I'm pretty sure I could get the 275 BE's to shoot in the Apex but they are too frangible for the close shots I usually get at deer, at least that's been my experience with them. That's why I'm wanting to stay with copper's.
I'd like to try Kyle's bullets as well as I believe they may be less frangible than BE's, but waiting to see some field results at the distances I will be using them first ( 10-75 yds.). To the best of my knowledge no one has had an opportunity to harvest any deer at these distances with the Accumax's yet.
Unfortunately, I have a very limited amount of access to my shooting range for load development as it is a 1.5 hr. drive and is only open from Sept. - March (it's on a WMA). So I'm not able to do a lot of experimenting w/ different loads as I would like to. Therefor, I have to make the best of my range time and work on loads with bullets that I know I would use for hunting. But I do appreciate your input.
Thanks,
YB
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Post by schunter on Feb 12, 2016 9:43:09 GMT -5
For the type of hunting you describe I would not look any further than the 250 FTX. You don't have to push them hard to get them to work and they are half the cost of the Barnes. They are extremely accurate and get the job done every time. I don't think there would be an issue shooting them with a straight load of N110. JMO
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Post by Yankee Bill on Feb 12, 2016 16:20:59 GMT -5
For the type of hunting you describe I would not look any further than the 250 FTX. You don't have to push them hard to get them to work and they are half the cost of the Barnes. They are extremely accurate and get the job done every time. I don't think there would be an issue shooting them with a straight load of N110. JMO
I considered the 250 FXT and they would likely be # 2 on my list, if I can't get the Barnes to shoot. Mainly because of their .452 dia. and I would likely have to buy a sizing die to use them in my Apex. I don't have any of .451 TEZ's yet but I do have some .451 BE's and the BE's go from pack to bore in my gun, so I'm hoping the TEZ's will do the same.
The extra cost of the Barnes in not too much of a concern for me as once I get a load worked up I will only be using them for hunting, and a couple of practice range sessions prior to the season.
I do have some 200g XTP's & SST's that I could use w/ sabots though if I get somewhere where I can shoot while my range is closed between March - Sept and just wanted to do some paper punching.
Appreciate the input.
Thanks, YB
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 16:53:57 GMT -5
If the BE's fit your gun from pack to bore then the 250 TEZ will likely be too lose. I would try to get ahold of one to try before buying them.
Also, the 250 TC Shockwave (blue tip) is a bonded version of the 250 FTX
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Post by Kyle on Feb 12, 2016 17:52:43 GMT -5
My apex shot the 275bes awesome and killed deer flat with 4198. I bet kyles bullets would work even better. Thanks buckstuds. I'm pretty sure I could get the 275 BE's to shoot in the Apex but they are too frangible for the close shots I usually get at deer, at least that's been my experience with them. That's why I'm wanting to stay with copper's.
I'd like to try Kyle's bullets as well as I believe they may be less frangible than BE's, but waiting to see some field results at the distances I will be using them first ( 10-75 yds.). To the best of my knowledge no one has had an opportunity to harvest any deer at these distances with the Accumax's yet.
Unfortunately, I have a very limited amount of access to my shooting range for load development as it is a 1.5 hr. drive and is only open from Sept. - March (it's on a WMA). So I'm not able to do a lot of experimenting w/ different loads as I would like to. Therefor, I have to make the best of my range time and work on loads with bullets that I know I would use for hunting. But I do appreciate your input.
Thanks,
YB
Speedrackin on the board harvested a buck at a close distance with my AccuMax 275's. Maybe he will give a report. |
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Post by buckstuds on Feb 12, 2016 17:56:31 GMT -5
I have 6-8 of them if you would like them. I can't get them to shoot.
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Post by Yankee Bill on Feb 12, 2016 18:08:13 GMT -5
If the BE's fit your gun from pack to bore then the 250 TEZ will likely be too lose. I would try to get ahold of one to try before buying them. Also, the 250 TC Shockwave (blue tip) is a bonded version of the 250 FTX Appreciate the info scat.
I've read some posts where guys with Apex's that were using BE's pack to bore were able to do the same with the 250 TEZ. Was hoping mine might be the same. Those same folks also reported that TC Shockwaves needed to be sized for their barrels. I have some Shockwaves and my findings are the same, they would need sizing for my bbl.
Don't have anyone around me I know of that would have a TEZ to try for fit but if the TEZ's weren't overly loose I guess I could knurl them ... but would hate to have a file tooth ruin my barrel as I've read here somewhere.
Thanks,
YB
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Post by Yankee Bill on Feb 12, 2016 18:11:33 GMT -5
I have 6-8 of them if you would like them. I can't get them to shoot. Thanks buckstuds. Looks like I was typing as you were posting.
Sure, I'll buy them if you want to part with them.
Thank You" YB
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Post by Yankee Bill on Feb 12, 2016 18:15:55 GMT -5
Thanks Kyle, hopefully he will chime in.
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Post by itneverends22 on Feb 12, 2016 18:54:46 GMT -5
I've only got about 1/5 of an 8 oz. can of 4759 left and haven't been able to locate anymore since it's been discontinued so I don't want to use that (unless anyone knows where I can buy a couple of pounds ). I love that powder, used it in my H.B. Savage.
I don't need the speed for my hunting application as my shots are typically at bow hunting ranges, so I would use the least amount of powder that gave me decent accuracy/obturation. This is also why I want to stay with Copper bullets, even if I do have to push them fast I don't have to worry about the devastation that some of the more frangible bullets cause at these short distances. Just trying to figure out what a safe max load might be incase I have to go that high to get decent accuracy.
Thanks, YB YB. I'm in the same boat as you, I also want to shoot the 250 tez, however my bore is so tight that i would have to run mine thru a die.. and then decide on what powder to use.. Soo, Im watching with great interest!! |
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Post by YankeeReb on Feb 13, 2016 11:33:00 GMT -5
YB, I recommended IMR4759 to you as a single because in some of your other threads you wanted to use your ramrod as is with no extensions. IMR4759 is a bulky powder and 43gr of that will take up the same space as 55gr of imr4198 plus it will spank your bullet faster and harder for good obturation with that all copper bullet vs 4198. Plus I use it sabotless and couldn't be happier.
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Post by Yankee Bill on Feb 13, 2016 13:49:19 GMT -5
YB, I recommended IMR4759 to you as a single because in some of your other threads you wanted to use your ramrod as is with no extensions. IMR4759 is a bulky powder and 43gr of that will take up the same space as 55gr of imr4198 plus it will spank your bullet faster and harder for good obturation with that all copper bullet vs 4198. Plus I use it sabotless and couldn't be happier. YR, I appreciate your advice, and your well thought out post. It seems that 4759 might well be the perfect powder for my setup and I'd love t try some. My only issue with 4759 is with it being discontinued I haven't been able to locate any more.
I only have about 1/5 of an 8 oz. can of it left so I can't rely on that small amount going forward for my hunting loads, unless I can locate some more. But I will use what I have left and see if I can work up a load to use incase I'm able to buy some more in the future.
Thanks again for the helpful info.
YB
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). I love that powder, used it in my H.B. Savage.
