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Post by SURESHOT on May 9, 2023 7:55:59 GMT -5
AS for the FFP/SFP as all know they have have +/-. At low light and the FFP scope which I have one or two the reticle at low powder is really small and the aimpoint cannot be seen as clear as the SFP scope but I have illumination on all to highlight my aimpoint, now I am a little older than I use to be and eye sight has changed.... Hunting on paths where light is restricted with the trees a lower power scope is better for me, such as my 3x20x50 had a 6x24x56 at crunch time on the hunting paths or in the fields, had to put the scope down and use BINCO's it cut my hunt time short, I have shot some nice bucks as I watched others walk back to there trucks as the were shocked that I was still able to see...
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Post by ballistic on May 9, 2023 8:42:12 GMT -5
See Attached Pics. This is why I run MIL/MIL in FFP. My zero is 300 yards. This chart is actually for my .40 cal muzzy. This is same type of chart that I made up for steel comps but works great for hunting. Since mils work in 1,s and 10,s it’s easier for my tiny brain once the yardage is known. Look at the longer ranges past 700 yards. 850 yards is 8.2 mils and it was fast and easy to figure it out. On the closer ranges where there’s 80 yards between 1/2 mils - again easy. If your off .1 click it doesn’t matter -it’s still a hit. Here’s the other benefit of having this chart and having a reticle in FFP. The deer/elk keeps walking further and further away and stops briefly and keeps going. You don’t have time really to dial up. Use the holdover in the reticle =game over. I have done this many a time. I hope this explains why I prefer a FFP scope with holdovers in a reticle. This chart can be changed and will need changes (at least for me) as I might be hunting at 2000’ and 90 degrees and the next day at 11,000’ and 20 degrees. View AttachmentControversial topic. Shooting at a moving target. My wind (tan column) is based off a 10 mph wind but also is the bullets (tof) time of flight. At 300 yards I could lead .3 mils (1/3 mil) on a walking deer =game over. The time of flight and a 10 mph wind are very similar for mil based ballistic solutions -at least that’s what I’ve found. 10 mph again is based off 1,s and 10,s so it’s easier to figure it out and fast. I personally will take the shot on a moving animal but have also practiced on moving steel targets. You have to learn how to count in 1/4 second increments like -one/one/thous/and- My hunting is different out west. Open canyons with lots of other hunters. I prefer to hunt with a team. The shooter gets setup while the spotter ranges and gives wind calls and dopes. The dope card is shared. It’s extremely successful or we have just been lucky ? Using the above helped win steel events so took it to hunting. Again totally different than hunting from a blind or at close distance but I believe that some of the info can be used for that type of hunting as well. |
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Post by Sideshow on May 10, 2023 19:25:41 GMT -5
Ballistic thanks again for the highly detailed info you keep providing . Im suprised nobody else has too ?? That is what this thread is for ?? At any rate its Valueable and im gratefull for your contribution and obvious skills .
Yes im aware some are apprehensive on the moving target subject . I suppose thats understandable . I thought everybody grew up walking countrysides jumping rabbits and shooting them running ?? I did with a shotgun and later on with a peep sighted 22 . Its second nature to me as i still do this . I am suprised that surrounding awareness , shot presentation , or distances were never asked as those Matter ?? Oh well it is totally a blast to do if you use your head !!! That IS The Most important part !!!
Its also sad that small game hunting period is dying countrywide . Thats the real basis for everything learned about safe hunting , successfull inspiration , ethics , and the Doorway to all further hunting adventures for most kids all across our land . Its not their fault .
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Post by jeepeater on May 11, 2023 21:24:50 GMT -5
I grew up shooting at running game. Rabbits and squirrels are good teachers. They taught me about leading just as much as ducks and doves. I also hunted whitetails in farmland growing up. A whitetail with a pack of dogs not far behind will humble you on how far you thought your lead should be. The tell tale puff of a bullet hitting fresh turned dirt several feet behind the intended target gives a good clue of where the next shot should go. Back in those days there were no fancy reticles with hold offs. I wish there would have been.
I prefer FFP scopes these days, but not for holding a lead on running whitetail. I don’t hunt wide open country, and rarely have time to range and dial. Most of my hunting is long cut lines and lanes. I’m lucky if I have time to range. I prepare ahead of time and range, then place markers at known yardages. If I don’t have time to range, the markers get me close enough. All I need to do is choose the correct hold on the reticle. My stands are set up just like I shoot from the bench, with front and rear bags for support.
I like the 34-35mm main tubes with large objectives in the 50-56mm range. Magnification needs to be 20+ on the top end, not that I always use the highest mag for taking the shot, but I do like to have it for closer inspection if needed.
I’m not a Vortex fanboy, but I do have several Diamondback tacticals in 4-16 and 6-24 on converted CVA’s. Also have a Strike Eagle 5-25 that I got a deal on, it’s nice for the price and rides on a Mesa/Brux 45. I think of Vortex like Yeti when it gets to their top end Razors. They rode to fame on millions in advertising and good warranty, but their top glass doesn’t compare to Nightforce and other top end scopes IMHO. I was a big fan of Leupold years ago, and still have some old Leupy’s that I hang on to. Their newer scopes don’t impress me in glass or durability.
My current favorite is the Nightforce NX8 4-32 with the MOAR reticle in FFP illuminated. If I had to pick one scope to do it all, that’s the one.
I’ve got a couple of Arken EP5’s to test and play with now, and I’ll probably try their new lightweight scopes on the break actions.
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Post by Sideshow on May 12, 2023 3:31:58 GMT -5
I grew up shooting at running game. Rabbits and squirrels are good teachers. They taught me about leading just as much as ducks and doves. I also hunted whitetails in farmland growing up. A whitetail with a pack of dogs not far behind will humble you on how far you thought your lead should be. The tell tale puff of a bullet hitting fresh turned dirt several feet behind the intended target gives a good clue of where the next shot should go. Back in those days there were no fancy reticles with hold offs. I wish there would have been. I prefer FFP scopes these days, but not for holding a lead on running whitetail. I don’t hunt wide open country, and rarely have time to range and dial. Most of my hunting is long cut lines and lanes. I’m lucky if I have time to range. I prepare ahead of time and range, then place markers at known yardages. If I don’t have time to range, the markers get me close enough. All I need to do is choose the correct hold on the reticle. My stands are set up just like I shoot from the bench, with front and rear bags for support. I like the 34-35mm main tubes with large objectives in the 50-56mm range. Magnification needs to be 20+ on the top end, not that I always use the highest mag for taking the shot, but I do like to have it for closer inspection if needed. I’m not a Vortex fanboy, but I do have several Diamondback tacticals in 4-16 and 6-24 on converted CVA’s. Also have a Strike Eagle 5-25 that I got a deal on, it’s nice for the price and rides on a Mesa/Brux 45. I think of Vortex like Yeti when it gets to their top end Razors. They rode to fame on millions in advertising and good warranty, but their top glass doesn’t compare to Nightforce and other top end scopes IMHO. I was a big fan of Leupold years ago, and still have some old Leupy’s that I hang on to. Their newer scopes don’t impress me in glass or durability. My current favorite is the Nightforce NX8 4-32 with the MOAR reticle in FFP illuminated. If I had to pick one scope to do it all, that’s the one. I’ve got a couple of Arken EP5’s to test and play with now, and I’ll probably try their new lightweight scopes on the break actions. Good you stopped in jeepster . Glad you can identify as well . I just love the adrenalin rush of a big boy in high gear and gettin it lol . Farms with crop damage permits are a blast with surrounding woods looking like a pumpkin patch. , orange everywhere . Just like bird hunting a weed field they jump and run . Good for the heart and freezer . I never used dogs as Michigan thats illegal except for bears . Sounds like you adapted to your home now . Understandable . I find with farmland to deep woods to swamps and river bottoms , flat ground to sizeable hills i must be flexible with my gear choices . Plus i still hunt too . Im glad you contributed . Ive got a couple spots where i overlook lower distant ground too or powerline . Good luck in all you do . |
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Post by 445supermag on May 16, 2023 23:19:27 GMT -5
From now on my scope choices have drastically changed in whhat I buy and mount on any rifle I will ever own. I am for the most part a stationary hunter due to medical reasons. So blind tree stand or high elevation vantage point. My scope changed to big dialer Christmas tree rets target/competition style. My McWhorter 45xml wears NF ATACR F1 7x35x56 mil xt and love it. I just recently acquired a 6mm creedmoor and it wears a Sightron sviii 5x40x56 MH 6 ret and am extremely impressed. Like extremely impressed. I have a custom 22lr in the works and most likely will be getting an additional Sightron SVIII MH6 to match the 6 creed. This is where I have come to after years of trying a lot of others. While I may not have owned them but shooting buddies let me get behind their glass to see if we like something else. Oh I have zero issues using my scope into close range like 25 yards if needed. All my new glass will be illuminated which helps in close with FFP. Oh everything I mentioned will be or is forever FFP. I am done with SFP 445 supermag how do you make that 7x work for you at 25yds ?? Are you a both eyes open shooter up close even looking past a 56mm ?? I can think of no other way ?? Glad you joined in . it's very easy I literally can see no issues or problems. I don't lose my target at all. To me it's not even a consideration being that close with 7 power. Very very easy. No I don't need to keep both eyes open to find the deer. Its actually ery easy for me. For my next scope I maybe getting the zco8x40x56 and that will be just as easy. I just dont have any issues in close. It works for me. When I build my 28 nosler it will be either another sightron sviii 5x40x56 or a zco 8x40x56. Decisions |
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Post by Sideshow on May 18, 2023 15:20:38 GMT -5
445 supermag how do you make that 7x work for you at 25yds ?? Are you a both eyes open shooter up close even looking past a 56mm ?? I can think of no other way ?? Glad you joined in . it's very easy I literally can see no issues or problems. I don't lose my target at all. To me it's not even a consideration being that close with 7 power. Very very easy. No I don't need to keep both eyes open to find the deer. Its actually ery easy for me. For my next scope I maybe getting the zco8x40x56 and that will be just as easy. I just dont have any issues in close. It works for me. When I build my 28 nosler it will be either another sightron sviii 5x40x56 or a zco 8x40x56. Decisions
Wow....i have a 8x40x56 and i cant do it ?? Good for you i guess if you can !!!! |
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Post by hillbill on May 18, 2023 20:03:57 GMT -5
You are not going to find a lot of guys on this site that Have low power scopes on their Smokeless rigs, a few maybe? For the most part these guys are Long distance messengers, or at least they think of themselves as such.
Not many here that are going to take jump shots or running shots either, a different game with a different tool.
In the last 18 years I have mounted dozens of scopes on these guns, the lowest power scope I ever mounted on a SML other than my own was a 3x12, most were between 4x14 and 5x50. Yes my 5x50 can easily be used in the woods, it also worked pretty well past a mile.
Yes low power scopes have their place and yes one can make long shots with a low power scope BUT very few go that route, very few, at least in this game.
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Post by Sideshow on May 19, 2023 23:18:23 GMT -5
You are not going to find a lot of guys on this site that Have low power scopes on their Smokeless rigs, a few maybe? For the most part these guys are Long distance messengers, or at least they think of themselves as such. Not many here that are going to take jump shots or running shots either, a different game with a different tool. In the last 18 years I have mounted dozens of scopes on these guns, the lowest power scope I ever mounted on a SML other than my own was a 3x12, most were between 4x14 and 5x50. Yes my 5x50 can easily be used in the woods, it also worked pretty well past a mile. Yes low power scopes have their place and yes one can make long shots with a low power scope BUT very few go that route, very few, at least in this game. Yes ive seen this tendacy for awhile Hillbill . Some probably most guys lean this way toward the high powered optics and heavy rifles . Ive got one myself in that 45 with a #17 brux that wears a 4x16x40 . Its no carry around gun at present and It wont swing worth a dam either . The man that gave it to me never intended those attributes for it . Its a bench gun and really nothing else for targets or hunting . While its nice i desire MORE . I also have said Why . Your "Bolt" would fall a bit on the heavy end of what i consider the limit for what i prefer to do afield . Id much rather have Sews "Diamond" truthfully and his loading visions , maybe a tad more . For all the CVA Scouts coming aboard for versatility my outlook also fits them i think better IMO . Thats just honestly looking at capability objectively of the tool . No smoke no mirrors just reality . I realize there is also the personal satisfaction factor . Some require a closer look and the deer hunt setting or deer habits allow that where they are hunting . In my areas that 90% of the time would Never fly . Ive heard of these deer in other states that are unafraid and marvel at them !!! I assure you , you Wont find that in Michigan often !!! This is a tremendous consideration for Everything and i dare say many here in my home state dont ponder that either . Their success is low . This is Precisely Why i spoke of those 2 GPO offerings . Nope i dont know the full details Yet of their specs . But i like what i see for Versatility so far and found those attributes highly worth mentioning here . I say a lighter highly Versitle rifle set-up is Highly Desireable !!! Something like Sews Diamond really is a Jewel . A moving target will probably remain a disputed subject for most . I can understand that as our skill levels vary person to person with experiances . The weapon itself also matters a great deal . For myself this is not a issue with the type of muzzy i prefer . Im not limited like that within my own set paremeters . Its an old friend there . My experiance as a wingshooter is pretty vast and so is shooting running rabbits with a 22 in the snowy season . I find deer no different . I accept many cant do it . With the optics and rifles most here use i see why . This too is Rapidly Changeing . Im sure thats noticed . My long range experiance is limited at approximately 650yds . I rarely have desire or oportunity for more or even that . While i can appreciate everything that goes into further shooting i just dont do it . Could i ?? Yes but i find no real need . Id rather develop a faster flatter load for what i do do and the ranges i do them within . This for me is effective use of magnum force . |
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Post by gd357 on May 19, 2023 23:21:03 GMT -5
A good portion of my muzzleloader season (middle of the day anyway) is usually spent driving deer with a few friends. If I didn't shoot at running deer, a lot of opportunities would be lost. I'm not going into the ethics of it, but I've taken running deer with regularity for a long time. I guess I'm used to it, and have to make opportunities count since work pretty much monopolizes my life right now. However... Right now my CVA Scout conversion is wearing a relatively modest Burris 3-9x scope. I'm sure that will change in the relatively near future (maybe?). If you're setting up for 500-1000 yards, you're unlikely to have a scope suitable for running game.   FWIW, I'm kinda jealous of the range time that some of you guys are able to fit in... gd |
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Post by Sideshow on May 20, 2023 0:04:55 GMT -5
A good portion of my muzzleloader season (middle of the day anyway) is usually spent driving deer with a few friends. If I didn't shoot at running deer, a lot of opportunities would be lost. I'm not going into the ethics of it, but I've taken running deer with regularity for a long time. I guess I'm used to it, and have to make opportunities count since work pretty much monopolizes my life right now. However... Right now my CVA Scout conversion is wearing a relatively modest Burris 3-9x scope. I'm sure that will change in the relatively near future (maybe?). If you're setting up for 500-1000 yards, you're unlikely to have a scope suitable for running game. FWIW, I'm kinda jealous of the range time that some of you guys are able to fit in... gd Well said gd357 !!! |
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Post by hillbill on May 20, 2023 13:37:31 GMT -5
You are not going to find a lot of guys on this site that Have low power scopes on their Smokeless rigs, a few maybe? For the most part these guys are Long distance messengers, or at least they think of themselves as such. Not many here that are going to take jump shots or running shots either, a different game with a different tool. In the last 18 years I have mounted dozens of scopes on these guns, the lowest power scope I ever mounted on a SML other than my own was a 3x12, most were between 4x14 and 5x50. Yes my 5x50 can easily be used in the woods, it also worked pretty well past a mile. Yes low power scopes have their place and yes one can make long shots with a low power scope BUT very few go that route, very few, at least in this game. Yes ive seen this tendacy for awhile Hillbill . Some probably most guys lean this way toward the high powered optics and heavy rifles . Ive got one myself in that 45 with a #17 brux that wears a 4x16x40 . Its no carry around gun at present and It wont swing worth a dam either . The man that gave it to me never intended those attributes for it . Its a bench gun and really nothing else for targets or hunting . While its nice i desire MORE . I also have said Why . Your "Bolt" would fall a bit on the heavy end of what i consider the limit for what i prefer to do afield . Id much rather have Sews "Diamond" truthfully and his loading visions , maybe a tad more . For all the CVA Scouts coming aboard for versatility my outlook also fits them i think better IMO . Thats just honestly looking at capability objectively of the tool . No smoke no mirrors just reality . I realize there is also the personal satisfaction factor . Some require a closer look and the deer hunt setting or deer habits allow that where they are hunting . In my areas that 90% of the time would Never fly . Ive heard of these deer in other states that are unafraid and marvel at them !!! I assure you , you Wont find that in Michigan often !!! This is a tremendous consideration for Everything and i dare say many here in my home state dont ponder that either . Their success is low . This is Precisely Why i spoke of those 2 GPO offerings . Nope i dont know the full details Yet of their specs . But i like what i see for Versatility so far and found those attributes highly worth mentioning here . I say a lighter highly Versitle rifle set-up is Highly Desireable !!! Something like Sews Diamond really is a Jewel . A moving target will probably remain a disputed subject for most . I can understand that as our skill levels vary person to person with experiances . The weapon itself also matters a great deal . For myself this is not a issue with the type of muzzy i prefer . Im not limited like that within my own set paremeters . Its an old friend there . My experiance as a wingshooter is pretty vast and so is shooting running rabbits with a 22 in the snowy season . I find deer no different . I accept many cant do it . With the optics and rifles most here use i see why . This too is Rapidly Changeing . Im sure thats noticed . My long range experiance is limited at approximately 650yds . I rarely have desire or oportunity for more or even that . While i can appreciate everything that goes into further shooting i just dont do it . Could i ?? Yes but i find no real need . Id rather develop a faster flatter load for what i do do and the ranges i do them within . This for me is effective use of magnum force . I look forward to seeing what you build as your perfect hunting rig and what you dress it with, keep us posted on the results. |
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FWIW, I'm kinda jealous of the range time that some of you guys are able to fit in...