Is blackhorn 209 smokeless powder ?
Dec 10, 2022 13:10:28 GMT -5
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dennis, caseless, and 2 more like this
Post by ballistic on Dec 10, 2022 13:10:28 GMT -5
Hello All
This might have been brought up in past posts (not sure) but I thought I’d get some insight from others on the above heading. I’m going to copy the SDS info on the chemical composition (ingredients) of what’s listed for the makeup of blackhorn 209. 1st will be western powders (originator approx 2015) and then the current owner (hodgden ) 2nd
For DOT or emergency response -the latest current SDS sheet is to be used but I included western powders for reference.
1-Western powders SDS
CAS Number
Not Disclosed Not Disclosed Not Disclosed Not Disclosed Proprietary
%[Weight] Name
30-90 Nitrate Ester
1-5 Stabilizer, Proprietary 0-25 Oxidizer, Mineral
0-25 Oxidizer, Organic
0-10 Carbonaceous Substance
Look up Nitrate Ester ( A well-known example is nitroglycerin, which is not a nitro compound, despite its name. Wikipedia)
2-Hodgdon Powder link hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/wercs-sds-us-blackhorn-209-2021-rev1.pdf
I couldn’t copy and paste section 3 (composition/ingredients) which would have really helped so I’ll freehand it below.
Nitrocellulose *83%
Guanidine Mononitrate *15%
Potassium Perchlorate *1%
Ethyl Centralite. *1%
*=Osha paragraph that says exact weight % is a trade secret.
To add to my original statement I would like to ask what makes smokeless powder -the ingredients ? The below is copied from this link www.chemeurope.com/en/encyclopedia/Smokeless_powder.html#Description
This can also be found in several spots online and be be very complex so the below summarizes.
“Smokeless powder consists of nitrocellulose (single-base powders), frequently combined with up to 50 percent nitroglycerin (double-base powders), and sometimes nitroglycerin and nitroguanidine (triple-base)”
I would like to point out that I work in chemicals facility in a lab environment but I am not a chemist. I frequently refer to SDS sheets to transport DOT chemicals and test to classify hazardous wastes. It’s always interesting to see how chemicals are classified to see (example =what makes a poison inhalation hazard or not can be decided by 1 part per million) how something is classified. *Propietary info above (hodgden) doesn’t help either. I’m not entirely sure how smokeless powder is considered smokeless either. Does it need to be 99% single and/or double based and not produce smoke? And the words proprietary will be found on most SDS for smokeless as well.
I’m also not advocating this to NOT have this powder removed as a black powder substitute - just pointing out its contents for discussion. I’m required to use blackhorn 209 in a state I hunt in. It has a lot more energy than any other black powder or substitute that I have ever used. And I would like to point out that some very high velocities (comparable to but still slower by 200 fps than some smokeless powder) can be achieved with long barrels in calibers from .45 down to .40 with my testing. Be careful - this powder can blow direct ignition bolts (open them up) and also the same to HIS - if you use large doses with heavy bullets.
Once again -I don’t want to see this powder eliminated as a substitute for black powder. I would like to hear others thoughts on the above. And raise awareness that this powder was originally tested in .50 cal muzzleloaders and considered safe. Lots of members on this board are using .45,s and .40,s with long barrels. This powder could be dangerous under the right or wrong conditions. Is this partially or maybe even mostly a smokeless powder? I won’t tell if you don’t -LOL !
Thanks in advance.
This might have been brought up in past posts (not sure) but I thought I’d get some insight from others on the above heading. I’m going to copy the SDS info on the chemical composition (ingredients) of what’s listed for the makeup of blackhorn 209. 1st will be western powders (originator approx 2015) and then the current owner (hodgden ) 2nd
For DOT or emergency response -the latest current SDS sheet is to be used but I included western powders for reference.
1-Western powders SDS
CAS Number
Not Disclosed Not Disclosed Not Disclosed Not Disclosed Proprietary
%[Weight] Name
30-90 Nitrate Ester
1-5 Stabilizer, Proprietary 0-25 Oxidizer, Mineral
0-25 Oxidizer, Organic
0-10 Carbonaceous Substance
Look up Nitrate Ester ( A well-known example is nitroglycerin, which is not a nitro compound, despite its name. Wikipedia)
2-Hodgdon Powder link hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/wercs-sds-us-blackhorn-209-2021-rev1.pdf
I couldn’t copy and paste section 3 (composition/ingredients) which would have really helped so I’ll freehand it below.
Nitrocellulose *83%
Guanidine Mononitrate *15%
Potassium Perchlorate *1%
Ethyl Centralite. *1%
*=Osha paragraph that says exact weight % is a trade secret.
To add to my original statement I would like to ask what makes smokeless powder -the ingredients ? The below is copied from this link www.chemeurope.com/en/encyclopedia/Smokeless_powder.html#Description
This can also be found in several spots online and be be very complex so the below summarizes.
“Smokeless powder consists of nitrocellulose (single-base powders), frequently combined with up to 50 percent nitroglycerin (double-base powders), and sometimes nitroglycerin and nitroguanidine (triple-base)”
I would like to point out that I work in chemicals facility in a lab environment but I am not a chemist. I frequently refer to SDS sheets to transport DOT chemicals and test to classify hazardous wastes. It’s always interesting to see how chemicals are classified to see (example =what makes a poison inhalation hazard or not can be decided by 1 part per million) how something is classified. *Propietary info above (hodgden) doesn’t help either. I’m not entirely sure how smokeless powder is considered smokeless either. Does it need to be 99% single and/or double based and not produce smoke? And the words proprietary will be found on most SDS for smokeless as well.
I’m also not advocating this to NOT have this powder removed as a black powder substitute - just pointing out its contents for discussion. I’m required to use blackhorn 209 in a state I hunt in. It has a lot more energy than any other black powder or substitute that I have ever used. And I would like to point out that some very high velocities (comparable to but still slower by 200 fps than some smokeless powder) can be achieved with long barrels in calibers from .45 down to .40 with my testing. Be careful - this powder can blow direct ignition bolts (open them up) and also the same to HIS - if you use large doses with heavy bullets.
Once again -I don’t want to see this powder eliminated as a substitute for black powder. I would like to hear others thoughts on the above. And raise awareness that this powder was originally tested in .50 cal muzzleloaders and considered safe. Lots of members on this board are using .45,s and .40,s with long barrels. This powder could be dangerous under the right or wrong conditions. Is this partially or maybe even mostly a smokeless powder? I won’t tell if you don’t -LOL !
Thanks in advance.
