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Post by turkey1 on Nov 15, 2022 11:13:57 GMT -5
Encore hanks 45 cal 225 accumax at 2520 mv. Got my first kill this morning with this setup, shot a 8 pointer at 96 yards quartering to me, bullet exploded on contact with shoulder joint and then opened up chest cavity with little penetration. Had to track and do follow up shot at 80 yards, 2nd shot was bang flop with entrance and no exit wound. Is this typical with the accumaxs? I was concerned from reading about this exact scenario, but seen lots of people having good luck with them. Should shots be limited to broadside behind the shoulder shots? Any other bullet recommendations to ensure penetration and exit wounds on broad side shots? Otherwise impressed with performance, think I may be expecting a outcome with this bullet that it’s not designed for (pass through shots) Thinks in advance
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Post by Kyle on Nov 15, 2022 11:28:07 GMT -5
Hitting bone accelerated the expansion of the bullet and limited the penetration. The 228 grain AccuMax Hard Core would have done somewhat better on the quartering toward shot. I generally don’t recommend taking quartering toward shots with light pure lead core bullets.
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Post by yoderjac on Nov 15, 2022 13:20:30 GMT -5
I'm shooting an Encore with 275 Accumax at a similar velocity. So far I shot one deer broadside in the chest. It ran about 50 yards before dropping. All the rest have been bang-flops with a scapula shot except for one neck shot that was also bang-flop. I'm not counting on exit wounds and blood trails with these. I'm pretty conservative with shot selection. I will admit that scapula shots do destroy the front shoulder and I lose some meat but not that much. I've shot about a half dozen deer with mine so far. I'm pretty selective with shots and I have not taken a quartering toward shot yet.
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Post by dannoboone on Nov 15, 2022 13:27:57 GMT -5
Not to take away from Kyle's great, accurate bullets, but for hunting I have gone to nothing but monolithic bullets. They do open a little on bone, but most of the bullet keeps on going and exiting. Downside...they are much more difficult to find a load which shoots them accurately. Doubt if any of them would win any of Hank's matches.
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Post by Ice on Nov 15, 2022 16:25:36 GMT -5
Not to take away from Kyle's great, accurate bullets, but for hunting I have gone to nothing but monolithic bullets. They do open a little on bone, but most of the bullet keeps on going and exiting. Downside...they are much more difficult to find a load which shoots them accurately. Doubt if any of them would win any of Hank's matches. Therein lies the dilemma - match accuracy and perfect terminal performance at any distance and speed. There is no “silver” bullet. I’ll take the HC versions understanding from the word go, the performance advantages and limitations that have been well vetted here by very knowledgeable experts.
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Post by turkey1 on Nov 15, 2022 17:40:18 GMT -5
Hitting bone accelerated the expansion of the bullet and limited the penetration. The 228 grain AccuMax Hard Core would have done somewhat better on the quartering toward shot. I generally don’t recommend taking quartering toward shots with light pure lead core bullets. When you say slightly better with the hard core, do you think I could expect exits on broadside shots?
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Post by turkey1 on Nov 15, 2022 17:43:57 GMT -5
Not to take away from Kyle's great, accurate bullets, but for hunting I have gone to nothing but monolithic bullets. They do open a little on bone, but most of the bullet keeps on going and exiting. Downside...they are much more difficult to find a load which shoots them accurately. Doubt if any of them would win any of Hank's matches. I am thinking of going the same route and trying the fury bonded or Barnes tez. Do you have any experience / advice on those?
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Post by Kyle on Nov 15, 2022 17:58:26 GMT -5
There truly is no silver bullet or magic bullet that will perform out of each and every muzzleloader from point blank range to long range. The way a bullet performs on game animals is based on 4 elements in my opinion.
#1 - The hardness of the bullet #2 - The hardness of the impact area #3 - The impact velocity #4 - The RPM of the bullet on impact
#1 - First and foremost I designed and marketed my bullets from day 1 to be used for long range hunting and target use. The AccuMax and Aeromax series are constructed with pure lead cores, a soft metal, to deliver their energy at longer ranges where impact velocities are likely to be less than 2400 fps. I designed the AccuMax Hard Core series and Aeromax Hard Core series with alloy lead cores, a combination of lead, antimony and tin that is harder than pure lead, to tame down the devastation on higher velocity impacts where hunters are in situations where they are over-gunned.
#2 - Shooting a deer in an area where larger bones exist will escalate the expansion of the bullet to a level that may stop or limit penetration. Shot placement in this area may cause devastation that is not desirable. Staying back in the rib cage is my recommendation.
#3 - If you are shooting 3000 fps and are shooting deer 0-200 yards- expect devastation.
#4 - When a bullet impact a game animal the bullet does not stop spinning entirely as it tracks through the wound channel. Bullets that are faster spinning will cause more damage. Bullet RPM is obtained more so from the twist rate of the barrel than the velocity the bullet is pushed to. Longer heavier bullets require more RPM than lighter shorter bullets. 1 in 20 twist barrels in .45’s are ideal for bullets 250-325 grains. 1 in 18 twist barrels in .45’s are ideal for bullets 325 grain and up in my opinion.
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Post by turkey1 on Nov 15, 2022 18:26:18 GMT -5
There truly is no silver bullet or magic bullet that will perform out of each and every muzzleloader from point blank range to long range. The way a bullet performs on game animals is based on 4 elements in my opinion. #1 - The hardness of the bullet #2 - The hardness of the impact area #3 - The impact velocity #4 - The RPM of the bullet on impact #1 - First and foremost I designed and marketed my bullets from day 1 to be used for long range hunting and target use. The AccuMax and Aeromax series are constructed with pure lead cores, a soft metal, to deliver their energy at longer ranges where impact velocities are likely to be less than 2400 fps. I designed the AccuMax Hard Core series and Aeromax Hard Core series with alloy lead cores, a combination of lead, antimony and tin that is harder than pure lead, to tame down the devastation on higher velocity impacts where hunters are in situations where they are over-gunned. #2 - Shooting a deer in an area where larger bones exist will escalate the expansion of the bullet to a level that may be cause desired penetration to be achieved. Shot placement in this area may cause devastation that is not desirable. Staying back in the rib cage is my recommendation. #3 - If you are shooting 3000 fps and are shooting deer 0-200 yards- expect devastation. #4 - When a bullet impact a game animal the bullet does not stop spinning entirely as it tracks through the wound channel. Bullets that are faster spinning will cause more damage. Bullet RPM is obtained more so from the twist rate of the barrel than the velocity the bullet is pushed to. Longer heavier bullets require more RPM than lighter shorter bullets. 1 in 20 twist barrels in .45’s are ideal for bullets 250-325 grains. 1 in 18 twist barrels in .45’s are ideal for bullets 325 grain and up in my opinion. Thanks for the explanation, that all makes sense. And I am very satisfied with the accuracy of the bullets as they are excellent in accuracy and quality.
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Post by joelmoney on Nov 15, 2022 18:30:23 GMT -5
Prior to using Kyle’s bullets I shot for shoulder wanting to break them down. Since I have started using muzzleloader pretty much exclusively I have learned Kyle’s bullets do exactly what they are supposed to do obturate easily and shoot accurately. I try only taking quartering shots and let the bullet expand in the vitals and it exits and flattens deer. I shoot his bullets in my break action bullet to bore and in sabots and bullet to bore in my 40 bolt gun. You want too shoot threw heavy bones I would recommend looking at monolithic projectiles.
Quartering on shots in my mind are in front of rib cage and out behind front leg off side. Quartering away I shoot behind on side leg and out in front of off side leg.
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Post by Kyle on Nov 15, 2022 18:55:42 GMT -5
Hitting bone accelerated the expansion of the bullet and limited the penetration. The 228 grain AccuMax Hard Core would have done somewhat better on the quartering toward shot. I generally don’t recommend taking quartering toward shots with light pure lead core bullets. When you say slightly better with the hard core, do you think I could expect exits on broadside shots? Yes.
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Post by buckeye68 on Nov 15, 2022 19:02:07 GMT -5
You may want to read through the 2022 Meat pole thread and see how different bullets preforms on deer. It all comes down to shot placement no matter what bullet you chose to use.
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Post by smokelessk on Nov 15, 2022 19:07:40 GMT -5
Encore hanks 45 cal 225 accumax at 2520 mv. Got my first kill this morning with this setup, shot a 8 pointer at 96 yards quartering to me, bullet exploded on contact with shoulder joint and then opened up chest cavity with little penetration. Had to track and do follow up shot at 80 yards, 2nd shot was bang flop with entrance and no exit wound. Is this typical with the accumaxs? I was concerned from reading about this exact scenario, but seen lots of people having good luck with them. Should shots be limited to broadside behind the shoulder shots? Any other bullet recommendations to ensure penetration and exit wounds on broad side shots? Otherwise impressed with performance, think I may be expecting a outcome with this bullet that it’s not designed for (pass through shots) Thinks in advance My suggestion, in the event a quartering towards shot is to be taken. With a bullet constructed, as Kyle said, "a light pure lead core bullet." Don't aim for the chest. Take a neck shot. Hold on the neck as high up toward the head as you can while maintaining a solid hold on "fur." Putting a bullet like that in the neck will dump that critter in the dirt every time. That extreme amount of energy being dumped in an area so small and close to the spine in addition to the muscle surrounding the spine is a showstopper. Let alone should the spine be cut or shattered by the bullet. If it's a buck that you want a shoulder mount, well, find a good taxidermist or watch him walk away.
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Post by deathray on Nov 15, 2022 20:05:31 GMT -5
Hard angle , major bone impact close to the surface? I don’t think I could call that a bullet failure . I had the same scenario years ago with a magnum center fire . It opened up the entire side of the deer . Kyle’s bullets have proven to be accurate and lethal if properly applied. But if you want pass throughs my bet would be Barnes TEZs. They require a wad for my rifle but shoot sub half inch. Not as accurate as the AccuMax but I think they would pass though a rhino! Just my two cents .
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Post by hillbill on Nov 15, 2022 22:04:24 GMT -5
Encore hanks 45 cal 225 accumax at 2520 mv. Got my first kill this morning with this setup, shot a 8 pointer at 96 yards quartering to me, bullet exploded on contact with shoulder joint and then opened up chest cavity with little penetration. Had to track and do follow up shot at 80 yards, 2nd shot was bang flop with entrance and no exit wound. Is this typical with the accumaxs? I was concerned from reading about this exact scenario, but seen lots of people having good luck with them. Should shots be limited to broadside behind the shoulder shots? Any other bullet recommendations to ensure penetration and exit wounds on broad side shots? Otherwise impressed with performance, think I may be expecting a outcome with this bullet that it’s not designed for (pass through shots) Thinks in advance My suggestion, in the event a quartering towards shot is to be taken. With a bullet constructed, as Kyle said, "a light pure lead core bullet." Don't aim for the chest. Take a neck shot. Hold on the neck as high up toward the head as you can while maintaining a solid hold on "fur." Putting a bullet like that in the neck will dump that critter in the dirt every time. That extreme amount of energy being dumped in an area so small and close to the spine in addition to the muscle surrounding the spine is a showstopper. Let alone should the spine be cut or shattered by the bullet. If it's a buck that you want a shoulder mount, well, find a good taxidermist or watch him walk away. Better yet: base of the neck in front of the shoulder, the only quartering to shot I will consider taking, I have never had one take a step afterward, never.
I have only shot one deer on the point of the shoulder, Kyle wanted me to test his .452 -325 Aeromax when he first made them, his exact words were "take a close shot on the point of the shoulder if you can, I found the right opportunity on a big doe @ 40 yds, 3100 fps, I knew what the outcome would be. It turned it a flip and hit the dirt like a ton of bricks, never twitched, upon turning her over her entire shoulder was missing, gone.
The only thing holding her leg on was a small piece of skin, the bullet barely penetrated the body cavity: dead deer all the same, it was really nasty and not a picture you would want to show off to anyone.
would a mono bullet perform better on the exact same shot, of course, find one that you can get to shoot accurately smooth formed from that light barrel, Na, likely not going to happen, a better alternative would be a heavier bullet or even a .402-225 Accumax in a light blue harvester.
Not bashing on you or your set up but point of shoulder with that light large caliber bullet? not good as you now know.
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Post by Deputy819 on Nov 16, 2022 4:44:39 GMT -5
turkey1I’m using the 278gr Hard Core (45 cal) at a muzzle velocity between 3.065-3,075 fps. The first doe I shot this year I took a low shoulder shot (she was standing broadside at 156 yards) to take out the heart. It was a “bang flop” and took out the heart alright!😂🤣 There was a very pronounced exit wound(s). The second doe I shot was a “quartering to” shot (same distance as previous) at a little steeper of an angle. I took a higher shoulder shot and somehow that doe soaked it up and managed to run @ 50 yards into the woods before expiring. There was an exit wound(s) on that one, too. Notice the (s) on the word wound? 😇
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Post by hatchetjack1 on Nov 16, 2022 5:59:32 GMT -5
Quartering to, base of the neck is my favorite shot. Like Hill Bill, all mine have gone straight down from this shot. When using a solid copper bullet, there is usually an exit hole at about the last rib. Very minimal meat damage with this shot as well.
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Post by Meateater on Nov 16, 2022 8:16:09 GMT -5
I shot two deer last week with he Fury 265 grain STB from a Scout conversion, one at 180 yards and one at 60 yards, both were DRT both were broadside shots and both had complete pass throughs. These bullets from Fury are bonded meaning that the jacket is some how welded to the core and keeps them from coming apart upon impact. My velocity at the muzzle is approx 2600 FPS.
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ronc
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by ronc on Nov 16, 2022 15:03:19 GMT -5
I've had what I call good results with Kyle's 228HC in my 40 cals at 2700 or 2800 fps. All (15 or so) have been pass-through behind the shoulder shots on does from 50 to 240 yds. it leaves around a 3" exit wound and most have run 50 t0 100 yds. I don't see how they do it, but they have and leave a great blood trail. A high lung shot has been a DRT, haven't tried a quartering shot yet.
My barrels are 16" twist and hope to test an 18" twist later this year in Ky mz season. I think slower twists will allow Kyle's bullets to penetrate deeper and be less explosive.
At the speed you're shooting, I think the 228 would perform much better if you can get it to obturate quickly, probably would need a wad, depending on powder...
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Post by mike243 on Nov 27, 2022 8:07:47 GMT -5
I have never taken a shot at a shoulder on a deer, no matter what rifle I am shooting I go for ribs/heart/lungs, It has worked very well for me over the years, I may not get pass throughs and really don't care but most of the time the deer are drt. I see folks complaining about power belt bullets a lot, never lost 1 with them. My 243 same way along with the 300wm. A bad shot is a bad shot no matter the bullet. 1/4 to I shoot right in front of the shoulder and unless I am shooting a premium bullet they drop on the spot. Have had several short runners due to pass through ,would rather leave all the energy in the deer ymmv
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