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Post by justhunt on Nov 4, 2022 20:19:11 GMT -5
Hey everyone....new to the smokeless forum, but really learned a lot the past 12months from all of you - even had Hank build me a CVA Scout conversion last year. Right out of the box - unbelievable accuracy! 278gr Accumax, wool wad, 58gr 4198 - 3shots touch at 100yd (perfect for where I hunt here in the VA mountains).
Took a doe during the late season last year (around 100yds) - slightly angling away, but not bad, and was surprised the bullet didn't exit. She didn't go far - lots of damage to the vitals - but no blood until I got to about 20yds from her. Had I not seen her pile up, probably would have been a challenge to find her.
Decided to try Scorpions (@240-245gr), they were about 2" high at 100yd - but didn't group better than 3".
Last week, I ordered some 250gr FURY MZ, (saw some really good reviews on them). Decided to try them out this evening, so I sized them accordingly to fit the barrel - SURPRISED me that the 250gr FURY was over 18" lower than both the Pittman and the Scorpion.
Season opens tomorrow, so I decided to go back to the Accumax and it tore the bullseye (so I know nothing is wrong with my gun/scope/mount/etc....).
Question for anyone who might have experienced both of these bullets (Piitman Accumax 278gr and FURY 250gr MZ) - is it common for those to have such a large variation in POI?
Thanks for any advice. Hoping I can get some time to dial in the FURY, they look like they might enter AND exit - making the deer a bit easier to find.
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Post by booner22 on Nov 4, 2022 22:03:38 GMT -5
Hey everyone....new to the smokeless forum, but really learned a lot the past 12months from all of you - even had Hank build me a CVA Scout conversion last year. Right out of the box - unbelievable accuracy! 278gr Accumax, wool wad, 58gr 4198 - 3shots touch at 100yd (perfect for where I hunt here in the VA mountains). Took a doe during the late season last year (around 100yds) - slightly angling away, but not bad, and was surprised the bullet didn't exit. She didn't go far - lots of damage to the vitals - but no blood until I got to about 20yds from her. Had I not seen her pile up, probably would have been a challenge to find her. Decided to try Scorpions (@240-245gr), they were about 2" high at 100yd - but didn't group better than 3". Last week, I ordered some 250gr FURY MZ, (saw some really good reviews on them). Decided to try them out this evening, so I sized them accordingly to fit the barrel - SURPRISED me that the 250gr FURY was over 18" lower than both the Pittman and the Scorpion. Season opens tomorrow, so I decided to go back to the Accumax and it tore the bullseye (so I know nothing is wrong with my gun/scope/mount/etc....). Question for anyone who might have experienced both of these bullets (Piitman Accumax 278gr and FURY 250gr MZ) - is it common for those to have such a large variation in POI? Thanks for any advice. Hoping I can get some time to dial in the FURY, they look like they might enter AND exit - making the deer a bit easier to find. Are you sure you had the same powder weight?I have shot 200gr sst, 250gr xtp 250 gr fury and 275 gr accumax and there was less than 4in of variation at 100 yards. |
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Post by Richard on Nov 4, 2022 22:12:02 GMT -5
Did you check the velocity on both bullets? And, at what yardage did you shoot them.
At 100 yards, I can put a low BC 300 gr XTP in the same hole as a 300 Aeromax using the same charge. Their velocities are equal. It sounds like you have a major velocity difference!
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Post by justhunt on Nov 5, 2022 7:06:15 GMT -5
I'm not setup to measure velocity, but have been shooting all my life - which is why it shocked me. The Pittmans and Scorpions were within what i expected, but didn't expect the FURY to be entirely off the board.
Yes - same yardage (my range is marked) and yes, same powder (measured at the same time I threw all the charges for my Pittmas).
No biggie though, I can explore it a bit more when I have more time. Good thing is that your responses were as I expected - shouldn't have seen that much difference.
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Post by farmerboy78 on Nov 5, 2022 7:28:49 GMT -5
I can test this for you today, I am shooting the 275gr AM but and ordered some 250 parker be and some of the 275gr furys that you run the 250 in. If I can get to it, I'll report back asap
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Post by sew on Nov 5, 2022 8:08:31 GMT -5
Justhunt,
The Parker BEs are very frangible. I shot 1 deer (~180# buck) at 180 yards with a 45 cal, 275 Fury with a MV of about 2,800. Mid chest, no exit, no blood, went about 60 yards in heavy buildup of grass, thicket, etc. Very hard to find. The Parker 250 and 275 BEs are the most frangible 45 bullets, I’ve shot. Though your 278 AM didn’t exit (why?) , you are looking at even more frangible bullets.
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Post by justhunt on Nov 5, 2022 8:25:01 GMT -5
Hey Sew - that was exactly what happened with my 278gr Pittmans (total destruction inside, but no exit, and very little blood). Don't get me wrong, for accuracy in my setup, they are awesome - but was hoping to find a bullet that would have decent accuracy and a reliable exit. Here in VA, where I hunt at least, if he runs 50-80yds he is out of sight and you need a CSI agent to help track if there is no blood.... If you experience with FURY is similar, not sure it's going to help me. Several reviews said they performed well on Whitetail - guess there are a lot of opinions as to what "performed well" means.  Any recommendations from you experience with bullets that have a reliable exit - and might be available to purchase? With inventories so low on everything, like Barnes, it's become VERY difficult to get reloading components. Hopefully this isn't the "new normal" of controlling our access to relaoding components - I'm still waiting for magnum rifle primers to come back in stock somewhere..... |
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Post by hillbill on Nov 5, 2022 9:15:40 GMT -5
Yep
Stick with the 278, that’s your best bet
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Post by joelmoney on Nov 5, 2022 9:54:53 GMT -5
Did the Furry and Accumax slide down barrel with same force? AM Hardcore is going to give best chance for exit.
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Post by lakeplainshunter on Nov 5, 2022 10:03:46 GMT -5
Any recommendations from you experience with bullets that have a reliable exit - and might be available to purchase? With inventories so low on everything, like Barnes, it's become VERY difficult to get reloading components. Midsouth has Barnes TEZs in Stock. |
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Post by dennis on Nov 5, 2022 10:03:53 GMT -5
Smooth sized fury bullets, I have only been able to get 300gr bullets to shoot with any consistency and needed a wad to do so. That being said I have taken a number of deer with sabot fury bullets in the past. If you can get them grouping they are a decent hunting bullet. Kyles bullets can't be beat for precision.
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Post by joelmoney on Nov 5, 2022 10:06:50 GMT -5
Any recommendations from you experience with bullets that have a reliable exit - and might be available to purchase? With inventories so low on everything, like Barnes, it's become VERY difficult to get reloading components. Midsouth has Barnes TEZs in Stock. How do they size and obturate? |
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Post by dennis on Nov 5, 2022 10:09:31 GMT -5
Any recommendations from you experience with bullets that have a reliable exit - and might be available to purchase? With inventories so low on everything, like Barnes, it's become VERY difficult to get reloading components. Midsouth has Barnes TEZs in Stock. I agree with Barnes in that they are evasive, they also have all but 1 time passed through on deer and that was a neck/shoulder quartering to @ 90yds. and the bullet fell out while skinning from the offside rear quarter with minimal meat damage. I plan to hunt again this yr. in Tenn. with what I have left of 275xpb Barnes. |
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Post by sew on Nov 5, 2022 10:10:32 GMT -5
FWIW, I’ve been a monolithic bullet fan for years. I’ve never lost a deer to a copper bullet. I’ve shot 175 Red Hots, 195 Barnes, 240 CEBs, & 253 (4005 ) Pittman Hammers for years saboted in 45s.
In my 40 PN barreled 10ML2 , I’ve shot 195 Barnes, 240 CEBs and 253 Pittman Hammers (4005s - sized down to .4000). I anneal every copper bullet.
In my ultra lite JB 40 cal, I’m shooting 4085 253g Pittman Hammers, annealed, full sized at >1/2 MOA out thru 300 yards @ 2,730’/sec. Though my heavy (18# ready to shoot) JB 40 shoots the 275 and 300 Accumaxes extremely accurately @2,870 , I plan on going to full sized 272/273 Pittman Hammers for next year and following.
While sabots are generally looked down upon by many smokeless shooters, I’ve experienced extremely good results from them. Their limitations need respected and worked around. Annealed, knurled 195 Barnes can easily be shot up through 2,900’/sec with HLBSs /Maine wool wad with sub MOA accuracy. I’ve not tried the much better 4005 253 past 2700 but expect it could go a lot higher.
But, as Hillbill says, the 278 AM needs another chance.
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Post by justhunt on Nov 5, 2022 11:13:51 GMT -5
Did the Furry and Accumax slide down barrel with same force? AM Hardcore is going to give best chance for exit. Yep. Same force going down, had to make a slight adjustment on the stage and got the 3rd one to the same feel. |
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Post by justhunt on Nov 5, 2022 11:18:49 GMT -5
Regarding Barnes...my brother shoots thise in his 40cal SML (with harvester crush ribs) - MZ is his style and he LOVES them, but good luck finding them.
I heard they might be similar to Knight Red Hots??? Anybody else heard the same?
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Post by sew on Nov 5, 2022 11:29:31 GMT -5
The Knight 175g Red Hots were, ?are -still in production?, just 175 Barnes.
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Post by farmerboy78 on Nov 5, 2022 22:19:29 GMT -5
So I shot some today. The Barnes 250 tmz, the Parker 250 be, and the fury 275... the fury did indeed shoot low for me as did the Barnes. Both were about a half mil low and the fury was about 2 tenths of mil right...I just used my 66gr charge I used for my pittmans. I think if I fudged with the powder charge they will shoot well, but at 66gr they were about moa. The Barnes 250gr tmz had all 3 touching and is a viable alternative with very promising results.
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Post by lakeplainshunter on Nov 6, 2022 5:54:53 GMT -5
Midsouth has Barnes TEZs in Stock. How do they size and obturate? I have to "knurl" them for my McGowen barrels. I shoot a duplex load as I am still using the inefficient Savage style breechplug with 209 Primers. |
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Post by Richard on Nov 6, 2022 9:17:14 GMT -5
When I shot the TMZ's, I needed to use a veggie wad to stabilize them. BTW, my smallest 3 shot group with a SML was .063" at 100 yards with the 290 TMZ out of a Savage PacNor set up!
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