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Post by sockethead on Sept 14, 2022 16:35:51 GMT -5
I finally got some time to take the new muzzy out to the range. I bore sighted it last night in the basement and crossed my fingers that I'd be on paper at 100. Weather was perfect, almost no wind, hopes were high! The first load I tried was a 250 grain SST (leftover from a previous gun) with 85 grains wt. of Blackhorn. First shot was on paper! I adjusted my scope and let another round fly...not on paper??? Adjusted the scope back to where it had been and let the 3rd round fly. Here is what I saw: So I figured with the light powder charge and relatively thick jacket of the SST I wasn't getting good rifling engagement. I decided to move straight to the 300 grain Pittman Aeromax on top of 100 grains wt of Blackhorn. I was on paper! I adjusted the scope and let 2 more rounds fly: Now we're talking! I wished I had one more powder charge to complete a 3-shot group, but no. Oh yeah and I forgot my chronograph. And my wool wads. Sometimes the excitement turns me into a complete fool. Next I had some 105 grain charges to try, and they shot a little better than the previous load: Overall I'm very pleased with the new gun. Can't wait to see what she'll do at longer range! Next time I'll remember my chronograph, wads, and a cleaning kit (things were getting a little gummed up after 9 shots). All the primers looked good (Fed 215M) and recoil was very manageable with the brake. I might even try 110 grains next time to see if it tightens up a little more.
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Post by Richard on Sept 14, 2022 17:59:34 GMT -5
Looks good. Yeah, light bullets with lighter charges will not obturate and keyhole all the time. So why no smokeless powder?? Either you like cleaning after a range session or your are strictly limited in your hunting area to black powder/subs. The wool wads might help but maybe not if the charge is too light. SST's have a thick jacket around .025" where the Pitman's have a .021" soft jacket. Good luck with the new toy and keep your wits about you when loading..............don't be distracted by other shooters talking to you.
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Post by Sideshow on Sept 14, 2022 20:25:02 GMT -5
Good for you !!! I realize this was the first range session but 1 day you should try compressing that blackhorn to known amounts before the bullets gets rammed home . Bh209 Really Appreciates being packed tight with alot of pressure . I used a tool which had a spring in it that the spring would just start to compresse from fully extended upon my ramrod at 75 lbs for uniform compression . Some say it likes more but this spring tool really helps get it Excited and i had the spring too already . Try it theres a Noticeable Difference !!! To be totally honest id pack that 150 gr load after every 50gr added . It Matters !!! Bh209 Likes Being Loaded by the bullet weight resistance and compressed at loading to release its energy . A dinged up bullet base will hurt you however on accuracy . Just seat it normally . IF it will shoot with a veggie or Best a polywad i suggest that too to be Sealed Up . Ive also done LRMP tests with no powder and no bullets just to see which primers had the biggest flames out of a empty barrel . My Chrony agreed Winchester or Federals got the fire burning Best . Strain = Ferocious !!!
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Post by sockethead on Sept 14, 2022 21:25:08 GMT -5
Richard, here in Utah we are not allowed to use smokeless for hunting. I'm hoping that changes someday (I'll be ready and waiting), but for now I have to play by the rules. And good point about not getting distracted! So many people are curious when they see a gun like this and they always want to chat you up. I was careful to note my ramrod position each time I loaded, and ensured my powder funnel was sitting on the bench before pulling the trigger. I wanted to try the SSTs mostly for sighters. No use flinging a $2 bullet downrange just to see if you're on paper...but in the process I probably wasted $4 worth of powder, haha! I should have used smokeless for the sighters. Are there any cheap bullets worth trying out for plinking?
Funny, sideshow, I was just thinking about compressing the Blackhorn. I think that would help build more pressure and increase the effective barrel length. Has anyone ever tried pre-compressing a load of Blackhorn? This stuff is about 50% air. It would be really easy to make a die and compress it to an exact volume before loading it. Hmmm.
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Post by Sideshow on Sept 14, 2022 22:24:01 GMT -5
Thats why i told you about compressing it because It Works !!! Crushing it into fragments or dust doesnt work . For whatever reason those air holes gotta be there . A uniform pack is what youre after to a known pressure regardless of the volume charge in that barrel . It also likes the layers of packing it , 3 times in all for every 50 by volume in this case . I use 75lb as a convience thing because i had the spring i mounted in a wooden dowl with a brake shoe spring washer connected to the spring on the ramrod end with the pocket for the ramrod so it has a place to seat . I carry it in my possibles bag always to use bh209 . Over a 100lb spring would be better but i had this and said good enough . The only thing the pack must be equal from shot to shot . To just barely begin compress my spring it provides a 75lb pack to the powder . Everything i listed helped velocity and ES for me . Bh209 likes heavier bullets too . A 325 will give you more velocity than a 300 gr bullet for example . It likes the Strain with its big loads !!! Where that ends i dont know truthfully . Fury just made experimental 400gr bullets and theyre the best looking bullets he has Ever made . BC will be better too so its win -win .
When you try smokless about none of this will apply except the better bc with heavier bullets . I Must use bh209 in my mz season too but smokless is legal for regular firearms season . For my states rules it doesnt get much better than the 40 cal SML to keep velocities high , equal , and easy to do .
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Post by sockethead on Sept 14, 2022 23:58:14 GMT -5
I'll have to try compressing it a bit more. Interesting statement on heavier bullets giving higher velocity...I have not heard that before. I had thought about trying the 325s or 350s if the recoil from my 300s wasn't to obscene, and it wasn't bad with the brake. Not sure how they'd do in a 1:20 twist.
Utah has crazy rules...smokeless is illegal in a muzzleloader even during the rifle season. A muzzleloader must abide by certain requirements to be considered a legal weapon for hunting here (40 cal min bullet diameter, loaded only from muzzle, black powder or substitute). If it's a legal muzzy you can use it during muzzy or rifle season though. So strange. They've been trying to move more people from rifle to muzzy over the last number of years so I'm optimistic they'll move to smokeless before too long.
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Post by Sideshow on Sept 15, 2022 0:07:25 GMT -5
A lighter bullet in rhe 45 seems to plateau before a heavier bullets velocity does with big loads was my finding . Seems nuts dont it ?? The heavier bullet makes more efficent use of the powder load and for me released more energy for velocity with a big load of powder . Lighter bullets act like a smokless load of way too slow a powder thus no extra velocity per grain vs effiency . Id imagine that would hold true unless you really tipped the jug !!! I didnt push things that far . At any rate combined with the bc it was far better than what i previously had . I wish the gains in velocity were far more linear for the 45 period . Pressure seems to be what releases bh209s energy best . The bullet has to work the powder because the caliber doesnt . Pressure rise in a 40 is Alot Faster than the 45 even though the 40 can shoot light bullets very fast for example . Not pickin on the 45 because in smokeless it seems thats reversed with pressure being scary in the 40 for rise . At any rate im falling asleep here tonight . You built a really nice muzzleloader my friend !!! And it shoots great right off the bench too . Thats speaks volumes all by itself !!! Good luck and good nite . Its 1:47 am here . Tomorrow this may not even make sense to me right here for what i wrote . Im bushed !!!
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Post by dennis on Sept 15, 2022 7:25:31 GMT -5
Nice ride, I mean rifle, time for a drive in the woods.
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Post by hillbill on Sept 15, 2022 7:53:44 GMT -5
I’m not a blackthorn guy but I think you will benefit more from a wool wad than trying to compress your powder
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Post by Hank on Sept 15, 2022 8:04:18 GMT -5
When sighting in a gun, always shoot three shots before making any adjustments, then adjust one thing only. I have found you will be bullets ahead if you do it this way. For example: Don't make a scope adjustment, a powder charge change and size your bullet smaller, because if you shoot a good group you won't know for sure what you actually benefited from.
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Post by Sideshow on Sept 15, 2022 8:04:24 GMT -5
I’m not a blackthorn guy but I think you will benefit more from a wool wad than trying to compress your powder Hillbill compressing the blackhorn makes it preform like its a bigger charge than it is . Even encore agreed with that and im sure in his recent win at Camp Atterbury 1000 yd match his loads were compressed there too . 350s in a 1 in 19 twist . A wad seems to be essential with bh209 of some type . I prefer the others , veggie or polywad , just to get the proccess of ignition and obturation started better . Its worked for me . Some here have the dual challenge by laws to extract all we can out of our loads . Its twice the fun at times to get it done and requires imagination for solutions not normally seen . Your long range 40 work should make this very relateable .
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Post by Richard on Sept 15, 2022 17:35:37 GMT -5
As far as practice/inexpensive bullets? Hornady's 300 gr XTP is hard to beat! I would venture to say that out of the 15 to 20,000 muzzle loader bullets I have shot over the past 15 years, 50 percent have been XTP's. At 100 yards, they will run almost side by side with Aero Max's...that of course changes as we move further out. These are also being shot around 3,000 fps without a wad and loose fit.
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Post by Sideshow on Sept 15, 2022 19:59:25 GMT -5
Mr sockethead , ive re-read what all i wrote and the good news is it all makes sense to me and is 100% True . Apparently i was awake enough lol !!! If theres anyway i can help you i will . Give me a PM sometime too to say "Hi" . That Im impressed with your skill is a bit of an understatement and for what youve accomplished with that rifle No Doubt !!! You too seem to be a outside-the-box thinker and do-er . I applaud that !!! Very cool . We will be looking forward to......rifle needs a name ,.... next adventures . Well done . Sideshow......
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Post by sockethead on Sept 26, 2022 12:54:47 GMT -5
Well I made it out to the range again. This time I brought my chronograph and my wool wads, hoping to get things dialed in sufficiently for a trip out to the desert for long range testing. My plan was to try 3 different powder charges and get velocity numbers for everything. I started out with a squeaky clean bore and a 105 grain charge of Blackhorn, a wool wad, and the Magnetospeed V3 strapped to the barrel. Not a bad group! I was very pleased that my clean, cold bore shot landed right in with the other shots. Velocity was 2400, 2378, and 2394. I had given it a quick cleaning after the 2nd shot...I'm not sure if the fouling is affecting velocity or not. Either way an ES of 22 isn't bad. 2400 was a little lower than I'd hoped, but only by 100 FPS or so. I decided to skip the 108 grain charge for the time being and try out 110 grains. Velocity went up about 75 FPS but accuracy dropped off a little: Since I don't have a lot of time left before my hunt I decided to stick with the 105 grain charge for now. I pulled the chronograph off and sent another 3-shot group with 105 grains: Once again, very happy with the results. I might be able to squeeze some more accuracy or velocity out of the gun with more experimentation but this is plenty good for this year's hunt. I adjusted my scope for a 100 yard zero and let one more Aeromax fly to check my adjustments. Right on the money. Now I'm ready with enough info to make a drop chart and test at longer range.
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Post by deathray on Sept 27, 2022 21:02:44 GMT -5
NOT BAD for a smoke pole ! Good shooting right there !
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Post by deathray on Sept 27, 2022 21:04:49 GMT -5
As Richard said 300 gr XTPs make great practice bullets and they are great hunting bullets out to 300yds or so !
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