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Post by joelmoney on Nov 16, 2022 0:06:04 GMT -5
Good luck! Weather sucked for us in zone 2A. Tags are filled and hopefully looking down a hole in the ice while you’re out hunting.
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Post by lbahunter on Nov 30, 2022 4:55:32 GMT -5
Was able to get the new rig out and shoot on Saturday to get the scope dialed in. I went with 50 grains H4198, 200 grain SST blem and light blue sabot. Recoil was very light. Didn't shoot any groups but its at least sighted in dead on at 100 which will work if I get a chance to hunt this fall. That load should work well. A major problem with light loads CAN be temperature sensitivity. If 60g of a powder works well with a certain bullet, then 40g likely wouldn’t be a good choice at all. Whatever powder/volume you use, you want it in it’s designed pressure range. VV120 can get extremely temp sensitive at lower loadings. VV110 can work great (in a 45) from 30-to even 39g with a 195/200g bullet , knurled in a LBHS and a base protecting wool wad. 35-37 seems optimal. The 17g BD load gets about 1800’/sec with a 200g bullet with virtually no temp sensitivity and 22 magnum level recoil. Faster powders like 4756 and VV105 can be good choices for reduced loads. You don’t want a low pressure load! YOU MUST KNOW IF THERE IS A POWDER CHAMBER AND IT’S SIZE, IF THERE IS ONE! Which has less recoil? A saboted 40 cal. 200 gr. or a .45 cal 200gr. bullet to bore
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Post by sew on Nov 30, 2022 7:29:23 GMT -5
If the velocity were the same, then the “equal and opposite” principle would indicate “the same”. But, the ballistic coef of the 40 would be better resulting in a flatter trajectory. .
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Post by lbahunter on Nov 30, 2022 8:35:10 GMT -5
If the velocity were the same, then the “equal and opposite” principle would indicate “the same”. But, the ballistic coef of the 40 would be better resulting in a flatter trajectory. . Basically, the recoil would be the same but the 40 cal would be flatter shooting at greater distance. Correct?
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Post by sew on Nov 30, 2022 11:57:37 GMT -5
Yes. I’m firmly convinced that sabots have their place in smokeless MLing shooting. When their limitations are respected and with proper usage, they can have significant advantages over bore sized shooting. For <150 yard deer hunting, a 195Barnes or 200 SST, or for out to 200 yards, a sized (402 ->400 225/228 AccuMax) in a HLBS , to me has significant advantages over bore sized shooting out of a light rifle.
Yes, I prefer smooth and even more, full sized shooting to saboted shooting. However, a break open rifle or when any rifle is being shot where reduced recoil is needed/wanted and/or short range is all that is needed, a 275g bullet being shot with 60-65g of H4198 may not be what the user needs.
A 195-228g 40 cal bullet, well sub-MOA , going 2500-2700’/sec will serve many deer hunters quite well.
A 40 cal has the versatility of shooting 40 cal bullets from very reduced loads to warp speed.
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Post by deadeer on Nov 30, 2022 12:31:51 GMT -5
Can honestly say I feel your pain. Went through pure H--- for a few years with the 4th and 5th lumbars. In my situation, chiropractors kept me going. My no recoil load is 35gr N110 over a 150gr Barnes copper. We only shot it at 50yds, but it was very accurate at that range. I wonder if N120 would be pressure starved at such a light load?? We were getting 2550fps using the N110 load. CORRECTION: It was a 195gr, not 150gr! Sorry! Just goes to prove ya gotta be careful with the loads ya see posted, and I should have proof read prior to posting! That speed is great for the 200sst/shockwave as well. Im still shooting sabots in my Sav/Pac gun. I'm about out of 195bx, but using till they're gone. Used the 200sst a few times with good results at lower speeds. Still got enough 200sst to supply everybody here for about 50 more seasons. Lol
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Post by deadeer on Nov 30, 2022 12:41:03 GMT -5
That load should work well. A major problem with light loads CAN be temperature sensitivity. If 60g of a powder works well with a certain bullet, then 40g likely wouldn’t be a good choice at all. Whatever powder/volume you use, you want it in it’s designed pressure range. VV120 can get extremely temp sensitive at lower loadings. VV110 can work great (in a 45) from 30-to even 39g with a 195/200g bullet , knurled in a LBHS and a base protecting wool wad. 35-37 seems optimal. The 17g BD load gets about 1800’/sec with a 200g bullet with virtually no temp sensitivity and 22 magnum level recoil. Faster powders like 4756 and VV105 can be good choices for reduced loads. You don’t want a low pressure load! YOU MUST KNOW IF THERE IS A POWDER CHAMBER AND IT’S SIZE, IF THERE IS ONE! Which has less recoil? A saboted 40 cal. 200 gr. or a .45 cal 200gr. bullet to bore Probably not gonna get the smooth sized bullet to obturate with the same charge you can get the saboted load to shoot? So got to take that into consideration when figuring up the answer too.
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Post by sew on Nov 30, 2022 18:19:41 GMT -5
I left out the obturation factor, not mentally but my typing finger did. Sabots obturate very easily and are a major driving factor when using reduced loads.
One size does not fit all! If a person comes into smokeless MLing, smooth or full sizes and uses adequate powder loads, then good results will likely occur. Without question, smooth sizing and full sizing with adequate or greater pressure are the best it gets. But, this cannot be extrapolated downwards to much lower loads, especially lower pressure loads. Sabots can obturate when the pressure is too low for smooth sized loads. Don’t discount saboted shooting.
Same with powders. If 60g of H4198 works better for a person than 65 or 65+ , that’s good; but don’t expect 35-40 to also work well but just slower with light recoil. Obturation and extreme temperature sensitivity will raise their ugly heads. Try to keep the pressure well w/i the design working range of the powder. Pressure is our friend. We need it for obturation, clean burning, keeping temperature sensitivity down, etc..
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Post by lbahunter on Nov 30, 2022 19:55:31 GMT -5
Yes. I’m firmly convinced that sabots have their place in smokeless MLing shooting. When their limitations are respected and with proper usage, they can have significant advantages over bore sized shooting. For <150 yard deer hunting, a 195Barnes or 200 SST, or for out to 200 yards, a sized (402 ->400 225/228 AccuMax) in a HLBS , to me has significant advantages over bore sized shooting out of a light rifle. Yes, I prefer smooth and even more, full sized shooting to saboted shooting. However, a break open rifle or when any rifle is being shot where reduced recoil is needed/wanted and/or short range is all that is needed, a 275g bullet being shot with 60-65g of H4198 may not be what the user needs. A 195-228g 40 cal bullet, well sub-MOA , going 2500-2700’/sec will serve many deer hunters quite well. A 40 cal has the versatility of shooting 40 cal bullets from very reduced loads to warp speed. For my style of hunting, saboted is the way to go. Most of my shots are >150 yds. I like the reduced recoil aspect, too. I shoot a resized Barnes 41mag 180gr. I want to try the Fury 41 cal. 210gr. The Barnes are getting tough to find. Plus, the Fury would be cheaper.
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Post by spikes on Dec 3, 2022 15:23:48 GMT -5
Yes. I’m firmly convinced that sabots have their place in smokeless MLing shooting. When their limitations are respected and with proper usage, they can have significant advantages over bore sized shooting. For <150 yard deer hunting, a 195Barnes or 200 SST, or for out to 200 yards, a sized (402 ->400 225/228 AccuMax) in a HLBS , to me has significant advantages over bore sized shooting out of a light rifle. Yes, I prefer smooth and even more, full sized shooting to saboted shooting. However, a break open rifle or when any rifle is being shot where reduced recoil is needed/wanted and/or short range is all that is needed, a 275g bullet being shot with 60-65g of H4198 may not be what the user needs. A 195-228g 40 cal bullet, well sub-MOA , going 2500-2700’/sec will serve many deer hunters quite well. A 40 cal has the versatility of shooting 40 cal bullets from very reduced loads to warp speed. For my style of hunting, saboted is the way to go. Most of my shots are >150 yds. I like the reduced recoil aspect, too. I shoot a resized Barnes 41mag 180gr. I want to try the Fury 41 cal. 210gr. The Barnes are getting tough to find. Plus, the Fury would be cheaper. Same here. In my Stainless Scout, I tried Hornady XTPs, SSTs, Barnes Tez, XPBs, Fury's, Eagle Creeks, Hammers all 45 cal smooth sized and was getting pretty good results with most of them. Then right before muzzleloader season started here in Tennessee I went out back to make sure everything was good and found my box of Pittman accumax's in 40. Gave them a quick shot with the harvester smooth blue sabots and they were just shooting ragged holes with 52 grains of H4198. I wanted to badly to use a 45 cal since I had invested in the smooth sizer and all the other 45 cal bullets I had, but I couldn't get anything to shoot better groups than the Pittmans with the sabots. So I stuck with them and now have killed 4 deer this year already shots between 70-100 yards and all had massive exits wounds with massive blood trails. And this load is incredible light recoiling and still moving the 228 grain bullet along at 2500 fps which means I can shoot it totally flat out to 150 yards.
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Post by lbahunter on Dec 4, 2022 19:59:19 GMT -5
For my style of hunting, saboted is the way to go. Most of my shots are >150 yds. I like the reduced recoil aspect, too. I shoot a resized Barnes 41mag 180gr. I want to try the Fury 41 cal. 210gr. The Barnes are getting tough to find. Plus, the Fury would be cheaper. Same here. In my Stainless Scout, I tried Hornady XTPs, SSTs, Barnes Tez, XPBs, Fury's, Eagle Creeks, Hammers all 45 cal smooth sized and was getting pretty good results with most of them. Then right before muzzleloader season started here in Tennessee I went out back to make sure everything was good and found my box of Pittman accumax's in 40. Gave them a quick shot with the harvester smooth blue sabots and they were just shooting ragged holes with 52 grains of H4198. I wanted to badly to use a 45 cal since I had invested in the smooth sizer and all the other 45 cal bullets I had, but I couldn't get anything to shoot better groups than the Pittmans with the sabots. So I stuck with them and now have killed 4 deer this year already shots between 70-100 yards and all had massive exits wounds with massive blood trails. And this load is incredible light recoiling and still moving the 228 grain bullet along at 2500 fps which means I can shoot it totally flat out to 150 yards. At 52gr. of H4198, how clean does it burn? With the N110 load I shoot it is super clean.
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Post by booner22 on Dec 4, 2022 21:28:52 GMT -5
50gr burns just as clean as 60-65 for me
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Post by spikes on Dec 4, 2022 21:56:34 GMT -5
Same here. In my Stainless Scout, I tried Hornady XTPs, SSTs, Barnes Tez, XPBs, Fury's, Eagle Creeks, Hammers all 45 cal smooth sized and was getting pretty good results with most of them. Then right before muzzleloader season started here in Tennessee I went out back to make sure everything was good and found my box of Pittman accumax's in 40. Gave them a quick shot with the harvester smooth blue sabots and they were just shooting ragged holes with 52 grains of H4198. I wanted to badly to use a 45 cal since I had invested in the smooth sizer and all the other 45 cal bullets I had, but I couldn't get anything to shoot better groups than the Pittmans with the sabots. So I stuck with them and now have killed 4 deer this year already shots between 70-100 yards and all had massive exits wounds with massive blood trails. And this load is incredible light recoiling and still moving the 228 grain bullet along at 2500 fps which means I can shoot it totally flat out to 150 yards. At 52gr. of H4198, how clean does it burn? With the N110 load I shoot it is super clean. Not as clean as my loads with IMR4227. There's definitely some leftover powder in there. But its so dang accurate im not worrying about it at this point.
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Post by lbahunter on Dec 4, 2022 23:10:00 GMT -5
50gr burns just as clean as 60-65 for me 👍
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Post by lbahunter on Dec 4, 2022 23:10:50 GMT -5
At 52gr. of H4198, how clean does it burn? With the N110 load I shoot it is super clean. Not as clean as my loads with IMR4227. There's definitely some leftover powder in there. But its so dang accurate im not worrying about it at this point. 👍
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Post by lbahunter on Dec 5, 2022 3:42:00 GMT -5
Has anybody tried any VV105 for their reduced recoil load?
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Post by dannoboone on Dec 5, 2022 13:32:01 GMT -5
Has anybody tried any VV105 for their reduced recoil load? According to the burn rate chart on xxl-reloading.com, V105 is only slightly slower than Blue Dot and quite a bit faster than V110. I wouldn't fear using it in a duplex, but leery about a main charge. There are those who have used BD in very reduced loads and possibly V105 could be used as such....uncharted waters.
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Post by lbahunter on Dec 5, 2022 18:39:31 GMT -5
Has anybody tried any VV105 for their reduced recoil load? According to the burn rate chart on xxl-reloading.com, V105 is only slightly slower than Blue Dot and quite a bit faster than V110. I wouldn't fear using it in a duplex, but leery about a main charge. There are those who have used BD in very reduced loads and possibly V105 could be used as such....uncharted waters. That was my thinking, using it like Bluedot in reduced loads.
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